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Ok, got it Janja1! Thank you for the suggestions, as I been writing all morning on what I need to say during this hearing. I am also going to just request a telephone hearing, because based on my document and the references from their employee manual I feel like this hearing will last no more than 20 minutes if that.
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It is good that you get it settled correctly in your own mind - so it won't throw you off if it is brought up - but a lot of this might not even be brought up (which will be a good thing).
It is good that you get it settled correctly in your own mind - so it won't throw you off if it is brought up - but a lot of this might not even be brought up (which will be a good thing).
Ok got it! I hope it doesn't. But I am prepared, because I have a feeling they will have that resignation form as their evidence.
You stated the union filed an unsuccessful grievance that you did not know about.
Have you approached the union about all this?
No the grievance wasn't unsuccessful, management informed me one was filed on my behalf and they gave a copy of it to the union. I never received the notice of suspension until management gave it to me that morning of the meeting with them.
And, may I also add, I never knew when management holds a meeting as such that a union rep is suppose to be present. A union rep was not there in the meeting with me when I was told I wasn't going to be re-appointed a union rep wasn't there to speak to me when management was advising me well maybe I should resigned being that I needed more time off and didn't qualify for FMLA, and a union rep was not around to advise me of my best options when my 5 day break was just a few days away.
From a few "regulars" I worked with, they told me management did things that they knew they wasn't suppose to do especially having this meeting with me with no union rep present.
I came to understand that I had rights during my crisis, I never knew I was suppose to speak to a union rep about the crisis I had at the time. I was never "pointed" in the right direction about this. I never was advised to speak with a union rep about anything and a union rep never spoke to me about a grievance or a notification of a suspension nor did I ever served a suspension because it was outdated.
When I was calling out during that time I had some annual hrs to use, once my annual hrs depleted I used LWOP (leave w/o pay) only then I was informed of FMLA and that came from management, and not a union rep.
Last edited by Hopeless Granny; 09-02-2019 at 10:10 AM..
Many times you have to request a union rep to be present. The employer won't automatically involve them. I am not sure about your union, but with many unions, having a union rep present is a right; not a requirement. So the employee has to request it.
Ok got it! I hope it doesn't. But I am prepared, because I have a feeling they will have that resignation form as their evidence.
That is another reason you want to watch the evidence you submit. You have evidence at hand that shows you were terminated due to the expiration of your appointment. That is what you will want to submit (at the appropriate time.) If they submitted the resignation paper, the last thing you would want to also be in your file would be an employee manual stating:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless Granny
365.2 Separations - Voluntary
365.21 Resignation
365.211 Definition of Resignation
Resignation is a separation at the employee’s discretion. Resignations must be accepted and are binding once submitted. However, employees are permitted to withdraw their resignation request provided the request to withdraw is made before close of business on the effective date of the resignation.
You always want to read everything you are going to submit; not just the part you think supports your claim. When I was researching veteran benefit claims it was amazing how many people were denied benefits because of something they submitted thinking it would support their claim. They would highlight the section they thought would apply, but fail to take into consideration other parts on the same document that worked against them. Always read the entire document, and read it through the eyes of someone who wants to deny you benefits.
If your employer does submit a resignation paper, it is up to them to prove (with evidence) that a submitted resignation is binding. Don't help them with that. Regardless of whether they submit that paper, I think it would be hard for them to prove (with evidence) that you were terminated for any other reason than the one they listed on your termination document.
My exact thoughts! When they sent me my SF-50 form the date it was processed was on 05/27/2019 made effective for 06/03/2019 (06/03 was the day my 5 day service break was to begin) but yet it states:
Nature of Personnel Action: Termination-Expiration of Appointment.
But, according to The USPS Employee Labor Relations Manual 365.33 (a) states... "Termination, expiration of appointment, is the term used to separate an employee whose services are no longer required.
It also states in their Employee Manual:
553.1 Postal Service Procedures
... (In those instances when the employee’s reason(s) for separation differ from the Postal Service’s reason(s), personnel offices enter the standard remarks message (Standard Code 542) on PS Form 50.) This standard remark states that a difference in separation reason(s) does exist and will be furnished upon request.
Which no code 542 is listed on my form if this is the case.
That is good to know that they didn't enter the code that means there are remarks in a section that explain a different reason for terminating you (that will be furnished upon request).
When you get your hearing file, you will want to make sure the form they gave you matches the one they submitted (if they submitted anything).
Many times you have to request a union rep to be present. The employer won't automatically involve them. I am not sure about your union, but with many unions, having a union rep present is a right; not a requirement. So the employee has to request it.
yeah I get that now. Never held a job with union representation before, so I didn't understand a lot of this could have been avoided and just maybe I would still be working with them. Just at that time I was emotional, worried for my daughter and grandson and myself because I was ill during this time too because I was working 6 days a week 10hrs sometimes 12hrs a shift and traveling 2 1/2 hrs sometimes 3 btwn the states.
Management saw that, I was just a support worker-non career with a re-appointment scheduled, they just helped me push myself out the door at that time. I felt for it and now paying the price. You live and you learn....
But with that said, they documented on my personnel recorded that they, terminated me by reason of expiration of appointment so we'll see how this goes..
That is another reason you want to watch the evidence you submit. You have evidence at hand that shows you were terminated due to the expiration of your appointment. That is what you will want to submit (at the appropriate time.) If they submitted the resignation paper, the last thing you would want to also be in your file would be an employee manual stating:
You always want to read everything you are going to submit; not just the part you think supports your claim. When I was researching veteran benefit claims it was amazing how many people were denied benefits because of something they submitted thinking it would support their claim. They would highlight the section they thought would apply, but fail to take into consideration other parts on the same document that worked against them. Always read the entire document, and read it through the eyes of someone who wants to deny you benefits.
If your employer does submit a resignation paper, it is up to them to prove (with evidence) that a submitted resignation is binding. Don't help them with that. Regardless of whether they submit that paper, I think it would be hard for them to prove (with evidence) that you were terminated for any other reason than the one they listed on your termination document.
Got it! Chyvan did advised not to use the employee manual so I will not use it at the time of the hearing, I will just submit the PS-50 form with their notice of action against me.
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yeah I get that now. Never held a job with union representation before, so I didn't understand a lot of this could have been avoided and just maybe I would still be working with them. Just at that time I was emotional, worried for my daughter and grandson and myself because I was ill during this time too because I was working 6 days a week 10hrs sometimes 12hrs a shift and traveling 2 1/2 hrs sometimes 3 btwn the states.
