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See, AFTER the personnel action had already been taken. You can make a case that your resignation changed nothing. You were already out of there. You just didn't know it, and hopefully, the hearing officer buys it.
Yes that's exactly what I'm praying for. Because, the way I see it now management already decided not to rehire according to my SF-50 form since they terminated me due to exp. of appointment effective 06/03.
Last edited by Hopeless Granny; 09-02-2019 at 05:34 PM..
yes that's exactly what i'm praying for. Because, the way i see it now management already decided not to rehire according to my sf-50 form since they terminated me due to exp. Of appointment effective 06/03.
Yes that's exactly what I'm praying for. Because, the way I see it now management already decided not to rehire according to my SF-50 form since they terminated me due to exp. of appointment effective 06/03.
Is there a way to find out if this form is something they send everyone right before their break in service? Do they terminate and rehire them?
That's exactly what my argument will be and my documents I will submit (when time to do so)
(The SF-50 and the Notice of Re-appointment) as evidence.
They processed my SF-50 on 05/27/2019 to be effective on 06/03/2019, as termination-expiration of appointment which was the same date my 5 day service break was to start. I been so hell bent trying to get this right that I now the exact date I signed the resignation form, it was on 05/31/2019.
What date was the letter dated? Was the SF-50 issued by the local office (re: the letter stating it would supersede the letter?)
So you only had one working day (June 3) between the May 31 resignation and the June 4 break in service? Or would you not have worked June 3 anyway?
The thing that I thought might save it was the personnel letter. It was dated BEFORE the claimant quit. My thinking was (after we know what's in the file) that a case could be made that the "firing" was in, and that this was a quit AFTER already being fired like she was set up for some crazy reason. You can't quit a job from which you've already been fired.
You're right though, what came before in this process could still be a problem, and hopefully, there's going to be something to work with.
I had been looking at it from the other direction -- that they had terminated her after she resigned (which could be taken to mean they did not accept the resignation - and terminated her instead).
It is really odd (or evil) that they advised her to resign on 5/31. They had already issued the termination form. Apparently, they had no duty to reappoint her. She either had one day left to work (or no days left) between 5/31 and the termination of the appointment. They could merely let her work the last day (or not) and not reappointed her. There was no need to advise her to resign on her last day (aside from shifting the burden of UI off them).
ETA -- Oh yes... I forgot that Saturday could also have been a work day. But still... it doesn't change things much.
I'm working on this date. What happened on 5/31 doesn't matter as much because the end date 6/3 is the same.
If I fire you on 5/27, and say, "your last day is 6/3." Looks like a firing.
If I then turn in a letter of resignation on 5/31, and say, "my last day will be 6/3." The employer still looks like the moving party.
Only if the employee leaves BEFORE the last day is it really a problem, BUT letters of resignation floating around in the process are never a good thing even when they shouldn't affect the outcome because people too easily make up their minds and don't listen.
That's why it's so important to make a big deal of the dates on this form. Pray the letter of resignation never surfaces, and if it does, make dang sure the DATES are scrutinized.
What date was the letter dated? Was the SF-50 issued by the local office (re: the letter stating it would supersede the letter?)
So you only had one working day (June 3) between the May 31 resignation and the June 4 break in service? Or would you not have worked June 3 anyway?
Right, I would not be working as of June 3. My 5 day break would've been June 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. And I could come back on June 9, if management decided to re-appointment. But, On 05/27 according to the processed date of my SF-50 management decided not to re-appoint me and made it effective for the date I would be separated on anyway which was 06/03.
The date on my Notification of Re-appointment is 04/22/2019. It states my last day in pay status was 06/03. They separated me starting 06/03.
The date(s) on my SF-50 was processed on 05/27/2019 and to be effective on 06/03.
The SF-50 supersedes the Notice of Re-appointment. Because the meeting they had with me on 05/31 Management pushed me to terminate myself and I clearly remember now that's when I signed the resignation form and checked the box that said (commute too long).
I'm working on this date. What happened on 5/31 doesn't matter as much because the end date 6/3 is the same.
If I fire you on 5/27, and say, "your last day is 6/3." Looks like a firing.
If I then turn in a letter of resignation on 5/31, and say, "my last day will be 6/3." The employer still looks like the moving party.
Only if the employee leaves BEFORE the last day is it really a problem, BUT letters of resignation floating around in the process are never a good thing even when they shouldn't affect the outcome because people too easily make up their minds and don't listen.
That's why it's so important to make a big deal of the dates on this form. Pray the letter of resignation never surfaces, and if it does, make dang sure the DATES are scrutinized.
Yup, I see where I messed myself up with by signing the resignation form. This is where I feel like it was a forced quit because Management knew my circumstances and played it out to me like "listen maybe you should resign since you still have something's to work out with your family and you're not qualified for FMLA because if you're "separated" from the company it will go on your record (SF-50) and based upon the reason of the separation it will bar me from reemployment with them". Remind you this is the morning they gave me a outdated 14 day suspension letter, a suspension I never served because the "union" filed a ongoing grievance something I had no prior knowledge of.
This is where I will try my best not to muddy the waters during the hearing. My argument will be those Dates. I know I will have to tell it as it clearly shows, management fired me before the resignation. I don't know if dropping a lil bit of my situation would help to show I was overwhelmed at the time, but I know it would be based on the questions that would be asked of me.
I truly appreciate the feed back because if I can argue my evidence with you guys and you can start to see if from my point of view I'm feeling like I have a chance at the hearing...
So, I'm thinking maybe I should also submit the outdated suspension letter, and the FMLA forms that shows the dates I was denied too...what would be your opinion?
Last edited by Hopeless Granny; 09-03-2019 at 09:23 AM..
Is there a way to find out if this form is something they send everyone right before their break in service? Do they terminate and rehire them?
Yes, they give every non-career employee a letter of re-appointment before the 360 days of employment ends for all PSE Clerks and MHA's (Mail Handler Assistance).
They only give an SF-50 when you're "terminated" or "separated" from the company according to OPM (Operations Personnel Management) government website.
I'm working on this date. What happened on 5/31 doesn't matter as much because the end date 6/3 is the same.
If I fire you on 5/27, and say, "your last day is 6/3." Looks like a firing.
If I then turn in a letter of resignation on 5/31, and say, "my last day will be 6/3." The employer still looks like the moving party.
Only if the employee leaves BEFORE the last day is it really a problem, BUT letters of resignation floating around in the process are never a good thing even when they shouldn't affect the outcome because people too easily make up their minds and don't listen.
This is exactly how I see it. HR processed my record as Termination-Expiration of Appointment and not as a Resignation and this is what I will try to have the ALJ see with my evidence and how I respond to the questions.
Because according to their regulations, my SF-50 should reflect the action of the separation or termination of my employment.
Last edited by Hopeless Granny; 09-03-2019 at 10:17 AM..
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