Fire for supposed "Theft", Denied Hearing 26th. (file, employment, report)

[janja1]

Originally Posted by Leonalexander

I got two paystubs but they are basic, lacking much information and they just emailed me back saying they can't seem to get my paystub information.

You might have a complaint to the Labor Relations Board if you think you were underpaid and the employer can't provide the needed information for your pay stubs.

[Leonalexander]

Yeah I was going to but they never provided the paperwork I wanted, was also figuring it's probably less than 300 they owe me but...


considering how this has turned out, I'm really on the fence even bothering to take the appeal further, the only thing that really interests me at this point would be getting it reduced to misconduct vs gross.

[janja1]

Originally Posted by Leonalexander

Yeah I was going to but they never provided the paperwork I wanted, was also figuring it's probably less than 300 they owe me but...


considering how this has turned out, I'm really on the fence even bothering to take the appeal further, the only thing that really interests me at this point would be getting it reduced to misconduct vs gross.

$300 would buy a lot of saltines and 7-up.

As to the appeal -- there are a lot of people who figure there is no use to appeal, who end up appealing anyway, and winning. You never know.

[Leonalexander]

Haha well the UI would be about 4k, enough to turn my electricity back on and stop having to borrow it from next door, Luckily the neighbor is my brother!

[oldtrader]

It has always been if you have a company credit card, all expenses must be related to the company buying things that benefit the company.

Using the company credit card for personal expenses is a NO-No and is grounds for immediate firing, and often you will be arrested for theft.

You were fired for cause, and of course that effects UI.

You caused the problem, so now you have to live with it.

[Leonalexander]

While I appreciate the input Oldtrader " theft is the taking of another person's property or services without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it"


I didn't take his property without permission or without consent and I certainly never deprived him of anything.


I helped him out a ton including providing trade secrets that would save him tens of thousands a year.


Also if they believed I stole then they should have charged me with theft, They weren't because they knew and if you subpoena the phone conversation you would hear them agreeing to all this.

[janja1]

It might not be over yet. You have nothing to lose by appealing.

They still have to prove you actually committed theft.

Though I agree that most people would know /think that using a company credit card for personal expenses is not something you should ever do -- boundaries aren't always so clear with small employers. For instance, even asking an employer to borrow money for groceries is not something you would ever do with most large employers. However, I have known several instances where small employers would give employees money for bills / expenses prior to payday.

In reading the thread I went back and you say the employer said he would let the other guys know about the fronted money.

Did he actually SAY that?

I didn't see that in your post above. You just said he said he would let the other guys know.

Texts where you asked for money and somewhere in the conversation he said he would let the other guys know about the fronted money --could actually slide it a little toward your favor, especially if it shows you asked on the 21 and got fired on the 25th.

I think your actual write up / termination papers are a bit interesting: For one thing you got written up and fired in the same instance. I don't think being fired when you are warned counts as a warning.

Originally Posted by Leonalexander

"This is a write up for (Redacted). This is a termination of (Redacted) for direct violation of using a company card for personal use in excessive amounts. This termination is effective 7-25-2019.
.

By stating "in excessive amounts" -- that could certainly imply that the use of the card for personal use is okay -- as long as the amount isn't excessive.

I think the employer (for their own case) should have left the "in excessive amounts" off -- as that opens it up to interpretation of what is excessive.

Plus -- If they made you pay for valid expenses -- they don't seem to know WHAT you bought. The fact that they said you bought things you also doesn't prove their case.

You might even be able to jump on that excessive amount statement of theirs -- and ask them (at the hearing) to prove the amount you spent for personal use was excessive. How did they determine what you spent on personal use? Ask them to produce receipts showing what you bought for personal use.
Ask them to how they determined what was excessive, as you asked to spend a small amount on 7/21. You didn't make any purchases until the next day. When you called on payday (just a few days later) to settle up (as you had promised) they pulled up the account statement -- made you pay the ENTIRE credit card bill (including company purchases) without even letting you know what was excessive.

I think that statement by the employer (i.e. excessive) and the fact they might not even be able to prove what was purchased with the card might help you at least stay in the game.

You would also want in the very least to have evidence that the "liquor place" also sold gas.

It would be helpful (in this thread) to know EXACTLY what was said in those texts -- not just general kind of statements.

[Leonalexander]

Originally Posted by janja1

It might not be over yet. You have nothing to lose by appealing.

They still have to prove you actually committed theft.

Though I agree that most people would know /think that using a company credit card for personal expenses is not something you should ever do -- boundaries aren't always so clear with small employers. For instance, even asking an employer to borrow money for groceries is not something you would ever do with most large employers. However, I have known several instances where small employers would give employees money for bills / expenses prior to payday.

In reading the thread I went back and you say the employer said he would let the other guys know about the fronted money.

Did he actually SAY that?

I didn't see that in your post above. You just said he said he would let the other guys know.

Texts where you asked for money and somewhere in the conversation he said he would let the other guys know about the fronted money --could actually slide it a little toward your favor, especially if it shows you asked on the 21 and got fired on the 25th.

I think your actual write up / termination papers are a bit interesting: For one thing you got written up and fired in the same instance. I don't think being fired when you are warned counts as a warning.



By stating "in excessive amounts" -- that could certainly imply that the use of the card for personal use is okay -- as long as the amount isn't excessive.

I think the employer (for their own case) should have left the "in excessive amounts" off -- as that opens it up to interpretation of what is excessive.

Plus -- If they made you pay for valid expenses -- they don't seem to know WHAT you bought. The fact that they said you bought things you also doesn't prove their case.

You might even be able to jump on that excessive amount statement of theirs -- and ask them (at the hearing) to prove the amount you spent for personal use was excessive. How did they determine what you spent on personal use? Ask them to produce receipts showing what you bought for personal use.
Ask them to how they determined what was excessive, as you asked to spend a small amount on 7/21. You didn't make any purchases until the next day. When you called on payday (just a few days later) to settle up (as you had promised) they pulled up the account statement -- made you pay the ENTIRE credit card bill (including company purchases) without even letting you know what was excessive.

I think that statement by the employer (i.e. excessive) and the fact they might not even be able to prove what was purchased with the card might help you at least stay in the game.

You would also want in the very least to have evidence that the "liquor place" also sold gas.

It would be helpful (in this thread) to know EXACTLY what was said in those texts -- not just general kind of statements.

Yes the exact text was something along, "Check your rout for tomorrow, got you driving to Topeka it's a long drive so should be a shorter rout, I'll let the guys know about the fronted money."


and it's timestamped 8:30pm July 21st.


I'll spend Monday gathering as much evidence as I can including pictures of the Gas station and I'll even record a video with the owner because I even asked them "Have I ever even bought alcohol here and they scoffed and said I wish you did"


It offended me greatly as I lost my grandmother to alcohol and my mother was an alcoholic who almost died in a car wreck and caused much childhood devastation, my father was a Teetotaler and I followed in his footsteps, I got a little emotional with the UI person when he read back that I had purchased Alcohol, These guys had a tendency to release clients because they were "Low class" I kept furrowing my brow when they said that because the owners were out of staters coming to my state and calling my people low class... Felt very judgemental and knowing now what these guys said they clearly just assume things about people.


Off topic but for example I was doing a house in a lower income area and they called and said "Don't do it we don't want these kind of ghetto customers, they probably sell drugs"


I thought jeez that's kinda racist and very assumptive.

[markjames68]

I wouldn’t bother with a video or other statements. Keep it simple.

[Leonalexander]

I've also thought maybe I should just keep it simple, not alot of point of getting into hearsay.