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"direct violation of using a company card for personal use in excessive amounts" implies that you were indeed allowed to use the card for personal use or else they should have just said "direct violation of using a company card for personal use"
excessive by definition is more than is necessary, normal, or desirable; immoderate.
so you could argue your personal purchases were within "normal" amounts. The dollar amounts in question are not large amounts to begin with. If no one can produce any documents to define what the "normal" personal use dollar amounts are then I would think that would be in your favor.
Another thought when digging thru statutes.
Kansas Statutes on Disqualification of Benefits
(4) An individual shall not be disqualified under this subsection if the individual is discharged under the following circumstances:
(B) the individual was making a good-faith effort to do the assigned work but was discharged due to:
(i) Inefficiency;
(ii) unsatisfactory performance due to inability, incapacity or lack of training or experience;
(iii) isolated instances of ordinary negligence or inadvertence;
(iv) good-faith errors in judgment or discretion; or
Couldn't you argue your situation was 4B(iv). you were doing your job but good-faith error in judgement or discretion pertaining to the personal credit card use (only if the company does produce a policy on personal credit card use) and good-faith was that you paid it back???
Obviously I wouldn't argue it from this point of view if you go with the position that you WERE allowed to make personal charges. But as a back-up plan B.
"direct violation of using a company card for personal use in excessive amounts" implies that you were indeed allowed to use the card for personal use or else they should have just said "direct violation of using a company card for personal use"
excessive by definition is more than is necessary, normal, or desirable; immoderate.
so you could argue your personal purchases were within "normal" amounts. The dollar amounts in question are not large amounts to begin with. If no one can produce any documents to define what the "normal" personal use dollar amounts are then I would think that would be in your favor.
Another thought when digging thru statutes.
Kansas Statutes on Disqualification of Benefits
(4) An individual shall not be disqualified under this subsection if the individual is discharged under the following circumstances:
(B) the individual was making a good-faith effort to do the assigned work but was discharged due to:
(i) Inefficiency;
(ii) unsatisfactory performance due to inability, incapacity or lack of training or experience;
(iii) isolated instances of ordinary negligence or inadvertence;
(iv) good-faith errors in judgment or discretion; or
Couldn't you argue your situation was 4B(iv). you were doing your job but good-faith error in judgement or discretion pertaining to the personal credit card use (only if the company does produce a policy on personal credit card use) and good-faith was that you paid it back???
Obviously I wouldn't argue it from this point of view if you go with the position that you WERE allowed to make personal charges. But as a back-up plan B.
Thank you for your input, and education! I agree it would at worst be considered a good faith error.
I've got all my call logs and text logs unfortunately I have a terrible habit of deleting texts and I was frustrated after I got fired and didn't want to keep rereading the messages most of them weren't significant to me at the time.
Also timestamped data of when i got paid, When I made the call saying I'm coming, when I pulled the money out and when they called telling me to stay home, Also in this data it shows the other tech was blowing up my phone in between texting my two Co-Owner bosses.
10:08 They told me to stay home, 10:01 is when I pulled the money out, 8:47 is when I called telling them I'm coming to pay them.
8:14am is when I got paid, the last text from them saying they were close was at 11:57am for over an hour and 40 minutes they prepared paperwork to fire me.
Also have texts showing me texting him at 5:45pm saying i didn't want to be their salesman and they could pickup the tablet tomorrow.
The next day one of them texted me asking me information about how I did my work (Wanting education on how to properly apply pesticides)
I texted back at that point saying something along the lines of "Come get your tablet and do not keep asking me for information, I want to wash my hands of this situation"
I was sick to my stomach since I had left a good paying job to join these guys and now I'm stuck jobless.
Unfortunately the text logs simply show timestamps and outgoing/incoming.
11:57am is when they last texted but I called my Mom at 1:58 if I remember telling her I got fired, and they were at my house for about an hour so I believe they showed up around 1pm, putting it at 3 or so hours in between telling me to stay home and they would pickup the money/nothing was wrong to showing up and firing me.
Last edited by Leonalexander; 09-14-2019 at 08:51 PM..
Reason: Left something out.
I was fired on the 25th of July 2019 for using the company credit card they opened in my name to advance myself about $84 over a weeks time that I told the owner of the company I would pay back.
They seemed fine with this as it's a small company, I asked the owner on Saturday July 21st and was fired Thursday July 25th the day I got paid, The morning of the day I was fired I called the Co-Owner who I guess wasn't aware of the money spent but I called him letting him know I had gotten paid and was coming to the office to pay the company back and he said "Sure thing not a problem"
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonalexander
I told them when they printed out the thing it totaled 84.07.
I told them I'm fairly sure two of those 22.46 and 25.76 charges were for gas all my charges were usually 6-10 dollars.
Was the total amount you charged to the card $84.07? Or is this the amount you said you charged for personal purchases.
I assumed, based on you the post about the $6 - $10 charges, that the entire cc bill was $84.07, but much of that was gas.
It would help to know exactly how much you charged on the credit card, how much the bill was, and how much your personal charges were. You should know the amount you had in personal charges, since you were on your way to pay them back (re: you keep mentioning "pulling out your money."
3 X WBA. That is one of the lowest requalification requirements I've ever seen. Glad I looked it up. No wonder KS adjudicated the claim on the theft issue.
I was wondering if, nothing else, it could get knocked down to the misconduct -- with the 3 x wba
Statute | Kansas State Legislature
"gross misconduct connected with the individual's work, such individual shall be disqualified for benefits until such individual again becomes employed and has had earnings from insured work of at least eight times such individual's determined weekly benefit amount. In addition, all wage credits attributable to the employment from which the individual was discharged for gross misconduct connected with the individual's work shall be canceled."
They only put about 80% of the text message between me and the owner and they put the Non-Compete as a policy source which stated they could fire me at any time for any reason basic right to work state language.
And the signed termination/write up letter, which I thought was just a termination reading later I saw it was also a loosely worded write up.
The total charges came up to 84.07 most of them were correct but one was for like 22.83 need to pull to see it which I'm fairly sure was Gas since I was driving 2 hours back and forth plus in between jobs for 3 days straight the truck was guzzling gas, I told the owner it was taking about $20 a day in gas for this ride (Letting him know between that and the toll charges it may not be worth traveling that far to service houses)
When I called I said I owed them around $50 wasn't exactly sure how much since they had access to the online statements.
Why I said I don't agree with these charges should be $60 ish not 84.07, but I wasn't going to argue because I considered it petty, I'm in my 30's and these guys are all 23-25 not that age has anything to do with it but to me anything less than $100 is petty but I also always pay my debts.
I know for a fact that 22.63 receipt was in the truck when they took it, course they could have "lost" it but they marked it as fact before they fired me and they never went and checked the truck when I told them there are a few receipts in the truck I hadn't screenshotted and sent to him.
(He had me take pictures of gas receipts and send them to him, wasn't a policy per se but something him and the other tech did so I followed suit)
If you like I could send you copies of screenshots later if that isn't against the rules, rather not type it all out over the forum, it's pretty long.
Hrm found a text message to one of the Co-owners I had sent the day after being fired telling him how I felt deceived from the hiring process and that they could pickup their tablet because I feel like you couldn't afford me as a tech and wanted to switch me to a salesman because they were lacking sales.
Going to see if I can find some deleted photos because I'm 99% sure I took a picture of that 22 dollar gas receipt.
I want to reiterate, I was fired for spending money on a company credit card resulting in gross misconduct on the 25th... But they let me keep company property after turning everything over so I could decide if I wanted to become their salesman.
How does a company fire me for not being able to trust me yet let's me keep company equipment and ponder becoming a salesman and still wearing company clothing.
Last edited by Leonalexander; 09-14-2019 at 11:18 PM..
How does a company fire me for not being able to trust me yet let's me keep company equipment and ponder becoming a salesman and still wearing company clothing.
While you think this is a good logic argument to get UI, it just raises a "refusal of work" issue because you're not their salesman now. I wish you'd think things through before you start saying stuff because I'm pretty sure it was the way you said things before that caused you not only to get no UI because of misconduct, but GROSS misconduct because you can't control yourself.
I told them when they printed out the thing it totaled 84.07.
I told them I'm fairly sure two of those 22.46 and 25.76 charges were for gas all my charges were usually 6-10 dollars.
I had all my receipts in the truck they day they fired me, Had I known I was gonna get fired I would have pulled them out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonalexander
The total charges came up to 84.07 most of them were correct but one was for like 22.83 need to pull to see it which I'm fairly sure was Gas since I was driving 2 hours back and forth plus in between jobs for 3 days straight the truck was guzzling gas, I told the owner it was taking about $20 a day in gas for this ride (Letting him know between that and the toll charges it may not be worth traveling that far to service houses)
When I called I said I owed them around $50 wasn't exactly sure how much since they had access to the online statements.
Why I said I don't agree with these charges should be $60 ish not 84.07, but I wasn't going to argue because I considered it petty, I'm in my 30's and these guys are all 23-25 not that age has anything to do with it but to me anything less than $100 is petty but I also always pay my debts.
I know for a fact that 22.63 receipt was in the truck when they took it, course they could have "lost" it but they marked it as fact before they fired me and they never went and checked the truck when I told them there are a few receipts in the truck I hadn't screenshotted and sent to him.
It doesn't help that your story keeps having different amounts and that you weren't entirely sure of how much you owed. How many charges were for gas? Was it $22.63 or was it $22.46 and $25.76
What was your strategy for keeping track of what you owed them? Was it around $50 or around $60? Not knowing the correct amount because they had access to the online statements is a bit weak. The online statements don't show what the charges were for. How were you going to be able to look at the statements and determine what charges were yours and what charges were the company's? If you didn;t know for sure, even looking at the statement they printed out -- you would not have known looking at the statement from the company.
Keeping receipts of your personal purchases would have helped. It was only 3 days. It shouldn't have been that hard to keep track of receipts. If you kept the receipts and were on your way to pay them, you should have known exactly how much you owed - not some around $50 or $60 figure.
If you don't have greater clarity than that - it might be best to go with the theory that the entire $84.07 was for personal expenses but that you thought you had the authority to make those purchases and that they were not excessive.
If you start throwing out different figures, are confused about how much you spent, etc. trying to argue that you THINK some of the charges were not personal, but you aren't entirely sure, won't help.
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