PA Unemployment - Benefits if fired? (appealing, compensation, appointment, attend)

[andyp1744]

I am considering litigation. I am 61 years old, hard to find a job, the only male employee in the department. They only employees they have terminated have been male. I think there is a pattern to their madness. They didn't feel I was being a team player this last year. MAYBE I AM JUST BECOMING A GRUMPY OLD MAN!

[applesand]

I have a bit of a unique situation that hopefully someone in this thread can help with.
I left a job I had been with for three years to start a job in Loss Prevention this past February. To put it shortly, my boss was psycho. There were only two people in the department, me and my Loss Prevention manager. He had me do about two weeks of computer training and then expected me to be able to perform the job with out any instruction. This afternoon he flipped out on me in public, literally took me outside of our store and yelled at me. I had bystanders come up to me and ask me if I was "okay" and if "I needed them to call the police." It was embarrassing to say the least. After yelling at me, he stormed off and told me to meet him back in the office -where he told me he wasn't firing me. About an hour later he leaves the office and comes back in with a female associate from a different department. He tells me she is a "witness" because I am a female, and then proceeds to tell me that I no longer have a position in the Loss Prevention department of that store. He offered me a sales position, but I feel intimidated and utterly embarrassed by him. And quite frankly, I would feel so uncomfortable knowing that his crazy ass was watching me all day that I don't think I could bare even entertaining the idea of still working in that store. Here I will mention that he literally fixes certain cameras on certain registers so he can watch employees that are doing nothing wrong. I personally think he's sexist and racist because the only employees he ever told me to watch for internal theft were African American females that did not appear to display any misconduct, but that is beside the point. So I was fired from one department, but am turning down the offer to work in another department due to sheer intimidation and discomfort due to the nature of the situation. Would I still be able to collect unemployment? I am fearful that my ex boss will find some ass backwards way to cheat me out of it, after all, he is in Loss Prevention. I also feel like I was wrongfully terminated due to a lack of training. I have no idea how I would prove it, but I worked hard and tried hard, and he just kind of flipped out on me. But I feel like the odds are against me because it's my word against his. He's a sixty something year old ex cop and I am a twenty one year old female college student. The whole situation sucks.

[Chyvan]

You've got to work on your story, or you'll mess things up for yourself because no will understand it.

The first issue is that you worked from February to April something. That may not be enough time so check into that. Could be that what you meant was that it's all the same company and you were promoted to LP, and then that would be fine. However, if you quit a job to take a new job at a new company, then you quite often have to work long enough to purge a disqualification from your prior job. Some states are better about it than others, but you need to know this going in or you'll put a lot of effort into this and because you didn't take this issue into account, you'll end up with nothing anyway.

The next thing to be mindful of is that you were FIRED from the job that you had. That's important because if you were fired absent misconduct (pretty tough for an employer to prove), then you get UI, and you need to confine yourself to that.

The sales associate job is an offer of NEW WORK. It's judged on suitability. The less time you've been out of work, the more your next has to be like the last job you had. If the sales associate job pays less, has bad hours, and is just inferior to what you had, you get to refuse it, and still get your UI.

Don't mix the issues or you'll get some UI person saying that you quit your job without good cause when you didn't take the job that looks like demotion. The UI system recognizes greed, so don't make your refusal about your crazy boss. They want things that are clear and can be measured. Pay, hours, duties, benefits. Very easy to prove things that may be lacking. You need to make it clear that you were fired, and pretty much stop. The employer might bring up during the process that you refused a sales job after you apply, but deal with it at that time. Don't try to cloud the fact you were fired first, and that completely changes the character of the other job to a new offer rather than a refusal of transfer.

[applesand]

Chyan,

That makes a lot of sense. Let me clarify. The job I left in February was a completely different company. I was a manager there and had benefits and full time hours and flexibility. I left that job for the one I was just fired from. Where I was only allotted part time hours and therefore could not apply for benefits.

The new position that was offered to me in sales is all about commission, and the available hours were not explained to me. I would be making a base of 5.00 per hour (two dollars and sixty five cents less than minimum wage) and the rest of my pay would be based off of commissioned sales.

[Chyvan]

As for the leaving in Feb, days can make a difference. So rather than saying Feb, you need to say when exactly was your first day, when was your last day, and just how much money did your earn based on your YTD pay stub. All that stuff can matter. Also, this new job doesn't sound like it was better than your old one, but some states allow you to quit a job for a better job and when it doesn't work out, then that is a possible exception, but I don't know PAs rules in this regard.

That sales job just doesn't sound like it's suitable unless, of course, your last job that you quit in December was pretty much the same thing. New, better jobs that you've had a short time don't always set the new standard for a refusal.

[Uncertain Future]

Hi Everyone,

I do hope I can piggyback on this thread. I just assisted my fiance with applying for unemployment after 20+ years with his production company. He was fired on a point system due to excessive absence. Many of his absences were requested due to unforeseen circumstances - ie. car trouble (he has to commute to the remote location of the job that isn't accessible with public transportation), calling out due to issues with a hernia he sustained on the job and ultimately needed surgery for, sickness etc. He did follow protocol (call out procedure), but even if one calls out for a legitimate reason, the Union Employees are still given points. They are treated very very differently from upper management. Even their medical benefits are unparalleled.

He did receive a warning and was told to not miss a day of work up until a date in mid-may. The warning was given in either Feb. or April. All in all he had no choice but to request a vacation day and here is the reason. We attended service on Good Friday only to leave the church and find that our car was being towed. We had no means of transportation and it was a holiday. By the time we triaged the issues with the bank and they granted us the ability to make full payment (yes my fiance neglected to make payment), the car was taken to another county and subject to auction if we did not pick it up ASAP. We were then scrabbling. We got the money together and made payment. We then followed up with his job on Saturday and then Sunday afternoon my calling and texting two people from upper management, which included his supervisor. Our request was for a vacation day to pick up the towed vehicle. The responses were "Noted" and "That Sucks Happy Easter". The next response was to my fiances' voicemail and it read "can't talk now, but I will talk to you on Tuesday. Good Friday was the car tow, company closed on weekend so couldn't pick up and had to wait until Monday. My fiance would not have intentionally jeopardized his job! Yet given the circumstances he thought they would approve and he was under the assumption that they did due to their responses.

I encouraged him to file for Unemployment despite his fear and reservations because he is aware that his employer fights every case. I told him to get his paperwork in order and FIGHT! He has been with them 22 years! Now this?!?! Can he possibly win? We have a baby and facing eviction. I make enough to be considered working poor - yep 60,000 in PA is working poor with a family of 5. I don't know what to do! I don't even have enough money for food after the bills are paid.

Any advice?

[Ariadne22]

Originally Posted by Uncertain Future

He was fired on a point system due to excessive absence.

Many of his absences were requested due to unforeseen circumstances - ie. car trouble (he has to commute to the remote location of the job that isn't accessible with public transportation), calling out due to issues with a hernia he sustained on the job and ultimately needed surgery for, sickness etc. He did follow protocol (call out procedure), but even if one calls out for a legitimate reason, the Union Employees are still given points.

He did receive a warning and was told to not miss a day of work up until a date in mid-may. The warning was given in either Feb. or April.

All in all he had no choice but to request a vacation day. Good Friday .....find that our car was being towed. It was a holiday.

We then followed up with his job on Saturday and then Sunday afternoon my calling and texting two people from upper management, which included his supervisor. Our request was for a vacation day to pick up the towed vehicle. The responses were "Noted" and "That Sucks Happy Easter". The next response was to my fiances' voicemail and it read "can't talk now, but I will talk to you on Tuesday.

he thought they would approve and he was under the assumption that they did due to their responses.

I encouraged him to file for Unemployment despite his fear and reservations because he is aware that his employer fights every case. Can he possibly win?

So - this is July 7th and the car was towed on April 18th?

That was twelve weeks ago.

Nowhere in your post do you state his exact date of discharge.

When was he fired?

Am I correct in assuming he is first now filing for benefits twelve weeks after the discharge???

If request and approval of a vacation day at the last minute is in compliance with employer's policy on point system and absenteeism, you need to submit copies of the text message stating "Noted" from which you inferred the request was approved and a copy of the rules governing this point system.

That said, it is more than likely PA will initially deny benefits if employer cites excessive absenteeism in violation of rules and you will need to appeal. Most deputies, at the initial stages, will not sort through the rules and make this type of decision in favor of the employee. Chances are you can win on appeal if, on further examination, PA finds your fiance's request was compliant with rules governing the point system and that your fiance should not be assessed a point for an approved vacation day. "Approved" is the operative word, of course.

[Chyvan]

There's a much bigger issue here than the UI. I think you need to think about whether you want a guy like this as your partner in the future. Sounds like he made some bad decisions and dumped all the problems in your lap and now you're trying to fix things. This won't be last time he does this to you.

[Ariadne22]

Not to mention not being able to manage on $60k/yr - take home over $50k (yes I did the numbers - OP gets a $3k child tax CREDIT and pays virtually no federal tax - or shouldn't be) - but that's OT to this forum. Appalling that rent can't be paid and food can't be bought after all the other "bills" are paid. What "bills" can possibly be more important than food and rent when one has three kids?

If credit card payments are eating up the money, file bankruptcy and start over. Food and rent are paid FIRST - always.

[Chyvan]

I don't consider it OT. She did say, "any advice?" The other thing think that bothered me was that "car trouble" was actually the payments being so delinquent that the lender felt that they needed to repo it. What a disingenous way to phrase it. This story is your wake up call that your life is a train wreck in the making and if you manage to get any relief, you need to vow that this is last time you're going to let stupid, preventable stuff from ever putting you in this situation again.