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The OP lives in New York. Is he not allowed to comment on the subject either? You yourself live in Colorado. So why are you so interested in it? I moved out of California long ago but still visit family there on occasion. Doesn't matter what state or province you live in, the same principle applies. People should be allowed to vote for or against large scale projects involving a lot of public money. Ca. voters approved Prop. 1a in 2008 authorizing the state to spend $50 billion on a high-speed rail project. It wasn't decided on by the state.
Holy crap, calm down! You asked if the voters in Atlanta voted for this stadium. I responded that unlike in California or CO, in some states not all taxes require a public vote. I honestly thought you lived there. Good grief!
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 06-12-2013 at 08:12 PM..
In hindsight, I hate how they demolished so much of Detroit's downtown for Comerica Park and Ford Field.
That said, I do think downtown is healthier economically because of it (because it's deemed to be in a more central/safer area, more people are willing to spend money at the nearby businesses).
Tiger Stadium was definitely in a better location aesthetically.
Last edited by 313Weather; 06-12-2013 at 08:49 PM..
Do you think the sacrifice in real estate is worth the return that downtown or intown ballparks bring? Do you think that certain types of stadiums, for example basketball arenas, are a better fit for more urban areas than football stadiums?
It's not the stadium that's the problem. The real issues are how that stadium is connected to the surrounding area and how the surrounding area is allowed and encouraged to build.
I don't generally praise DT SJ, but people go there for Sharks games. Because of the tank's proximity to restaurants, it is complementary to DT (perhaps not ideally, but it's something better than nothing). Same with the ball park in SF.
It's when a sports facility is completely disconnected from its environment (hard to get to, nothing within walking distance, awful walkability acts as a deterrent to walking to nearby places, etc.) that represents a problem.
Nevermind where ... Why in the hell is Atlanta replacing a stadium that's only 20 years old?
I had a Honda that was older than that and was still running. And how long will the new stadium be good for? Another 20 years? Wow what a great investment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonpa
Cause the Falcon owner said he might move the team.... If he did not get new stadium.
The Falcon owner didn't make all those big 'campaign donations' for nothing. He wants his moneys worth!
Last edited by nei; 06-13-2013 at 09:50 AM..
Reason: triggered off topic debate
It has worked well for downtown Denver. Coors Field (baseball) was a big part of the revitalization of LoDo.
At 80+ home games a year, it is the most walkable to downtown and the bar/restaurant areas. The Basketball/Hockey arena is close but surrounded by parking lots. Football at 8 games per year is across the river and the Valley Highway, but still sorta downtown. They all bring huge crowds to Denver.
Darkeconomist and Ohiogirl81 hit on the most salient points.
It is good to have stadia downtown in general as large venue facilities are best when connected to the most variety of transportation connectivity. Being downtown in most every major metro area - except those with excessive high value per sf (Manhattan) unless they are multi purpose - makes sense. As focal point for community 'institutions' - it is, generally, best to centralize locations within or adjacent to urban central business district's.
As Darkeconomist aptly pointed out, How well a stadium is woven into the urban fabric is vital to its contributory success to city / regional 'urban planning' decisions and the adjacent areas redevelopment and usage. Cleveland did an excellent job with Gateway which took a peripheral main approach to the downtown (from the south) and integrated the baseball field and arena for basketball, hockey and other events.
On other hand the Cleveland football stadium is classic example of terrible planning. It sits on peripheral area north of downtown CBD right on the lakefront. It was replacing original 1931 stadium (same footprint) built on landfill on lake Erie. As open air stadium it is only used about 12-14 times a year. Total waste of potential high value property.
Other cities I've been impressed with how well their stadia / arenas are fairly well integrated into the urban fabric (with concern for various geographic / transportation issues) would be Baltimore (baseball), Denver (both), Pittsburgh (both), and San Francisco (baseball).
Why Atlanta needs to replace a 20 year old facility is ridiculous unless I'm missing something. For a large community facility to have that short of life cycle is idiotic planning (or caving to ownership extortion - I gather?).
Calm down dude. Don't get your panties in a twist just because someone has a differing opinion then yours, and don't hijack the thread. If you want to talk about the greatness of suburbia start a new thread.
Lol, I wasn't the one who brought up suburban house longevity in a thread about sports stadiums. I merely asked you to prove your statement which you're passing off as fact rather than opinion, you seem to be the only one getting excited here.
Anyway, back on topic. I think that downtown ballparks are a great use of space, so long as they provide adequate access for the most common types of transportation which people will use to get there. This includes having plenty of transit access and plenty of parking. Not so that "those damn suburbanites" can get to the ballpark (not that that's a bad thing either, as some here would say) but so that people who have cars from all over the region and the city itself can get there. I happen to love the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, however it would have been nice if some kind of parking provision woud have been made. Of course given the nature of the location and the fact that it's built on top of an LIRR rail yard, that would have been very difficult.
Of course Barclays has excellent transit accessibility from many inner city areas and Manhattan, and some areas on the fringe of the city...even accessibility from parts of Long Island due to the station downstairs. Thankfully, there are plenty of private garages in the area and many of them can be reserved in advance via their website. I went to a concert there back in February, and for an 8pm concert on a Wednesday, from my house it would have taken me a half hour train ride, half hour ferry and 20 minute subway ride...or an hour and 15 minute local bus ride and then a half hour subway ride to get there via transit. Instead I got reserved parking four blocks away for $12 and it took me about 30 minutes to drive there in rush hour traffic lol. Despite the excellent subway services in the area, I'd be willing to bet it might be more convenient for people all over the city, and especially areas outside of the city (outside of those LIRR-served communities) to just drive there. As far as being a boon to the area, all one has to do is walk down Flatbush Avenue and see the plethora of businesses and street life that this stadium helps support. Granted its downtown Brooklyn, so it always had some level of urban vitality, but just try and get a table at some of those restaurants on a Brooklyn Nets game night...I'm sure the businesses love it, and it's a cool place to hang out/eat/get drinks before and after an event.
All Indianapolis stadiums are downtown and I think it's a great thing. Colts games at Lucas Oil bring 70-80,000 people into downtown, many of which before and/or after the game visit one of the restaurants or bars right in the heart of downtown. Since they made it a dome and connected it via underground walkway to the Indiana Convention Center, they use it in the offseason for convention space. It also gets used for high school sporting events like the football state championships, marching band state championships, and I believe soccer championships. Drum Corp International uses it for it's world championships as does Bands of America. It replaced the RCA Dome which was right next door and that space was used to double the size of the convention center.
Bankers Life Fieldhouse is also downtown and hosts a good amount of Pacers and Fever games. Since they play opposite times of the year, that means the stadium stays pretty busy. When that isn't going on there are often concerts or shows like Disney On Ice, not to mention the Big Ten basketball championships and high school basketball championships. It replaced Market Square Arena which was very close by and also downtown. Sadly, the old Market Square Arena site still sits empty as city-owned land.
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