Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Rural living is a free for all for noise in that respect, for better or worse. Anyone with a loud hobby has to tolerate every else's loud hobbies.
Sometimes, the desire to live on acreage is code for "I want to be loud as hell, burn trash and shoot my guns at whatever I want, whenever I want and no one to tell me what to do since its MY property." lol
The neighbors nearby might have had a different idea in mind when they moved rural to get away craziness and enjoy some solitude.
The neighborhoods I'm thinking of a bit closer in with larger lots and a bit older, smaller homes (though not all) tend to be the ones where folks don't move very often. So, once discovered it will take some time to find someone selling. You might have to wait for someone to die. One of our favorites in Clark County is The Cedars neighborhood. When you drive into this neighborhood and see the beautiful cedar trees intermixed with custom homes on larger lots, you can't help but think this is how development should be done. That is building in and around the forest with homes spread out a bit vs. clearcut and all jammed together. There's also a beautiful walking trail with giant red cedars called Salmon-Morgan Creek. Most of the homes have attractive, well kept gardens and a real sense of pride of ownership. Of course, none of them are for sale and if one did enter to market it would go very quickly. Here's one the homes on almost an acre to give you an idea of the neighborhood. This is where the land is more valuable than the homes because of where its situated.
Sometimes, the desire to live on acreage is code for "I want to be loud as hell, burn trash and shoot my guns at whatever I want, whenever I want and no one to tell me what to do since its MY property."
A golden-rule type of maxim applies. If I engage in Activity-X, and so does my neighbor, but neither can hear nor see nor otherwise observe (unless prying) the other, then X is permissible, even if it's odious. This is the appeal of distance, or rural living. My neighbor's being loud, is irrelevant to me, if he's sufficiently far away.
Alternatively, if both I and my neighbor engage in Activity X, and we each find it to be appealing, then perhaps joining forces would make it even more appealing. This is the, well, appeal - of urban living.
Policing our neighbors into compliance, is a slippery slope. This is why I'm not greatly perturbed by the supposedly incendiary revelation of the bad neighbor next-door, cited a few posts upthread. No, I wouldn't explicitly crave such a neighbor, or seek such a neighborhood. But I'm rather more miffed at the impetus to enforce and to punish, than by the nasty behavior itself. Especially troublesome is the apparent prohibition against "junk" cars. What is junk? By my reckoning, one core reason for having a house, vs. renting an apartment, is to own and retain and store some substantial number of motor vehicles, in various states of disrepair, in many cases without... motors.
Oddly enough, it is possible to both prefer to burn one's trash in one's back yard, AND to read Goethe and Pushkin in their respective originals. It is the mindset that these are somehow mutually exclusive, that I seek to avoid, by avoiding urban centers.
This is also why I'm explicitly ruling out any places with HOAs or other form of self-aggrandized gendarme. Better a slum than a Young Pioneers camp.
My experience of Kitsap is, that there are creative people out there, in Silverdale in particular, but I imagine Poulsbo might have some of that, too. It's very quiet. No people shooting guns or blaring noise in other forms. People like these areas for the quiet and the ability to live in nature. And people on this forum have said good things about Stanwood, too. If you want to be closer to Seattle, there's Edmonds, which is on Puget Sound. Ditto--Mukilteo, north of Edmonds.
Those areas closer to Seattle, though, are gradually getting taken over by apartment complexes. You might find your property values being reassessed upwards aggressively over time, due to population pressure from Seattle. Larger lots will gradually disappear, as old farmhouses in the area are torn down by developers; especially the lots closer to highways.
In any case, it looks like you have a lot of exploring to do. Let us know how your search goes. We love follow-ups!
A golden-rule type of maxim applies. If I engage in Activity-X, and so does my neighbor, but neither can hear nor see nor otherwise observe (unless prying) the other, then X is permissible, even if it's odious. This is the appeal of distance, or rural living. My neighbor's being loud, is irrelevant to me, if he's sufficiently far away.
Alternatively, if both I and my neighbor engage in Activity X, and we each find it to be appealing, then perhaps joining forces would make it even more appealing. This is the, well, appeal - of urban living.
Policing our neighbors into compliance, is a slippery slope. This is why I'm not greatly perturbed by the supposedly incendiary revelation of the bad neighbor next-door, cited a few posts upthread. No, I wouldn't explicitly crave such a neighbor, or seek such a neighborhood. But I'm rather more miffed at the impetus to enforce and to punish, than by the nasty behavior itself. Especially troublesome is the apparent prohibition against "junk" cars. What is junk? By my reckoning, one core reason for having a house, vs. renting an apartment, is to own and retain and store some substantial number of motor vehicles, in various states of disrepair, in many cases without... motors.
Oddly enough, it is possible to both prefer to burn one's trash in one's back yard, AND to read Goethe and Pushkin in their respective originals. It is the mindset that these are somehow mutually exclusive, that I seek to avoid, by avoiding urban centers.
This is also why I'm explicitly ruling out any places with HOAs or other form of self-aggrandized gendarme. Better a slum than a Young Pioneers camp.
You never know, you may find such a property you like in the PNW. Though the cultural part is a significant stretch of the imagination. I'm not sure how much of what you describe are personal musings of a romanticized society vs. something that would make the move worthwhile or not. Are those attributes deal breakers or more fantasies?
Sometimes there's a tendency to dream of a place, any place, that meets our internal desires for connectedness and belonging to a community of enlightened citizens. Then project that imagine onto a specific location and imagine it as such. And there's nothing wrong with dreaming. But then after visiting this place for a season, one eventually come to realize that it is not at all what was imagined. Instead, it is something entirely different, a place with its own wonders and disappointments separate from the dream. That doesn't make it a bad place, per se. It's just not 'that' place. So, after reality sets in, a choice must be made and a reckoning occurs. Either accept this new homeland for all its flaws and beauties... Or go explore somewhere different for a time while still dreaming of that idealistic location that is likely a combination of all things deemed good within a society and culture. Those things which one experienced while growing up or traveling to different destinations enjoying different cultural aspects of them all.
You never know, you may find such a property you like in the PNW. Though the cultural part is a significant stretch of the imagination. I'm not sure how much of what you describe are personal musings of a romanticized society vs. something that would make the move worthwhile or not. Are those attributes deal breakers or more fantasies?
Sometimes there's a tendency to dream of a place, any place, that meets our internal desires for connectedness and belonging to a community of enlightened citizens. Then project that imagine onto a specific location and imagine it as such. And there's nothing wrong with dreaming. But then after visiting this place for a season, one eventually come to realize that it is not at all what was imagined. Instead, it is something entirely different, a place with its own wonders and disappointments separate from the dream. That doesn't make it a bad place, per se. It's just not 'that' place. So, after reality sets in, a choice must be made and a reckoning occurs. Either accept this new homeland for all its flaws and beauties... Or go explore somewhere different for a time while still dreaming of that idealistic location that is likely a combination of all things deemed good within a society and culture. Those things which one experienced while growing up or traveling to different destinations enjoying different cultural aspects of them all.
Derek
No, I really think CA does come closest to that dream. CA used to be like living in a dream. It was for me when I moved there at a relatively young age. Even without a ton of resources I got to experience so much. Being around such wealth has a way of lifting all boats too. And, again, there is no comparison between CA and the PNW in that regard (at least not yet).
... the cultural part is a significant stretch of the imagination. I'm not sure how much of what you describe are personal musings of a romanticized society vs. something that would make the move worthwhile or not. Are those attributes deal breakers or more fantasies?
Mostly fantasies. But by way of disclaimer, I was goaded into disgorging a list of fantasies. The more modest aspiration is to find a community where at minimum I'm tolerated, even if true kinship with neighbors remains elusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer
Sometimes there's a tendency to dream of a place, any place, that meets our internal desires for connectedness and belonging to a community of enlightened citizens. Then project that imagine onto a specific location and imagine it as such. ...
Agreed. For much of the 2nd half of the 20th century, such was a common sentiment about California. Such also was my sentiment, or more properly that of my parents, in choosing to come to the US. Reality fell short of expectations. But perhaps this wasn't any fault of the place; expectations were utterly impossible. The true fault was in illegitimate state of mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
No, I really think CA does come closest to that dream.
I offer much sincere praise to California. It has many fine attributes, even now, in 2023. But no, for me it doesn't comport with "the dream" at all. In many ways, it's just too much like the Midwest, or at least such holds for my portion of California. Perhaps I belong in Paris, 1920. Or Berlin. Or St. Petersburg, before the revolution. Fantasy, right?
Allowing ourselves to veer into what's perhaps too political of a matter, my dismay, whether in CA or Ohio or elsewhere, is along the lines of the oft-mentioned polarization, but with a different bent. I won't recite attributes of the two sides. It's already been done often enough. But I will ask: what happened to those persons who still revere and study the Western Canon, who think well of the stock market, but who aren't too particular about matters of the bedroom, who don't fly any flags, and who don't pay much attention to the color of one's passport? Where do they live?
Mostly fantasies. But by way of disclaimer, I was goaded into disgorging a list of fantasies. The more modest aspiration is to find a community where at minimum I'm tolerated, even if true kinship with neighbors remains elusive.
Agreed. For much of the 2nd half of the 20th century, such was a common sentiment about California. Such also was my sentiment, or more properly that of my parents, in choosing to come to the US. Reality fell short of expectations. But perhaps this wasn't any fault of the place; expectations were utterly impossible. The true fault was in illegitimate state of mind.
I offer much sincere praise to California. It has many fine attributes, even now, in 2023. But no, for me it doesn't comport with "the dream" at all. In many ways, it's just too much like the Midwest, or at least such holds for my portion of California. Perhaps I belong in Paris, 1920. Or Berlin. Or St. Petersburg, before the revolution. Fantasy, right?
Fair enough. It just helps to place this within context. Otherwise, the mysterious land sounds like something of novels or possibly a combination of the best parts of various international cities around the globe. Honestly, California was that dream location for much of the world for many, many years. Even Americans dreamed of heading west to the golden state whether that be for fortune, fame, the next big start-up that goes public, the next invention to change the world, a place to create and make dreams comes true. Or a place to enjoy amazingly beautiful landscapes and seascapes including the tallest mountain in lower 48 along with the lowest point in Death Valley. You could surf and ski in the same day if that's your thing.
California became the victim of its own fame being loved to death in many ways. The over population and LARGE human footprint took it toll on such an amazing place of wonder. Alas, it's become a shadow of its former self during its prime with ~ 20 million fewer people. And for many natives including us, it was simply time to move on. Let other newcomers enjoy the state without really knowing or experiencing what it once was.
Quote:
Allowing ourselves to veer into what's perhaps too political of a matter, my dismay, whether in CA or Ohio or elsewhere, is along the lines of the oft-mentioned polarization, but with a different bent. I won't recite attributes of the two sides. It's already been done often enough. But I will ask: what happened to those persons who still revere and study the Western Canon, who think well of the stock market, but who aren't too particular about matters of the bedroom, who don't fly any flags, and who don't pay much attention to the color of one's passport? Where do they live?
I will say that there are still 'parts' of California that have these attributes. One of best international cities I ever lived in is not LA. Rather, it is Monterey, CA, the Language Capitol of the World. This is about as close at it comes to what you've described in many ways. Between Monterey, Pacific Grove, Carmel and Pebble Beach, there's an amazing community of international citizens surrounded by incredible coastal beauty. There is country not far from the city which isn't urban itself. Think of the best parts of LA without all the mess and garbage or the segregated parts you spoke of. The only real downside for us was the enormous COL compared to almost anywhere else. But in this case, if you can swing it, its worth the price of admission. It's the nicest part of what CA has to offer and not overly impacted due to very strict building codes. Hence population growth is basically flat and almost frozen in time from a societal standpoint. The area is a place where music and the arts thrive along with the most beautiful section of the CA coast from Santa Cruz through Big Sur within a marine life sanctuary. And you're within an hour of San Jose if you even need big city things. All and all, its not a bad place to retire though certainly not low tax (unless you capitalized on Prop 13 like many of our neighbors). You simply can't have it all, I'm afraid.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 02-10-2023 at 08:56 PM..
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,690 posts, read 57,994,855 times
Reputation: 46171
Racial diversity is not a strength of the PNW, as there is very little of it (except in Vancouver, BC, largely SE and middle east Asia, few Black or Hispanic) similar in eastern Seattle metro. Near the PNW military bases there is more racial diversity (not a lot), but those areas are not too liberal.
Whatever you do... retain your CA Prop 13 if you are enjoying benefits. Many of my CA coworkers returned to CA to retire after their income tax free earning yrs. They could have never done the return trip, if they had not retained properties to keep Prop 13 status and equity in the up trend market. PNW proper is never gonna be CA in property escalation or diversity of race. Not even close.
I will say that there are still 'parts' of California that have these attributes. One of best international cities I ever lived in is not LA. Rather, it is Monterey, CA, the Language Capitol of the World. This is about as close at it comes to what you've described in many ways. Between Monterey, Pacific Grove, Carmel and Pebble Beach, there's an amazing community of international citizens surrounded by incredible coastal beauty. There is country not far from the city which isn't urban itself. Think of the best parts of LA without all the mess and garbage or the segregated parts you spoke of. The only real downside for us was the enormous COL compared to almost anywhere else. But in this case, if you can swing it, its worth the price of admission. It's the nicest part of what CA has to offer and not overly impacted due to very strict building codes. Hence population growth is basically flat and almost frozen in time from a societal standpoint. The area is a place where music and the arts thrive along with the most beautiful section of the CA coast from Santa Cruz through Big Sur within a marine life sanctuary. And you're within an hour of San Jose if you even need big city things. All and all, its not a bad place to retire though certainly not low tax (unless you capitalized on Prop 13 like many of our neighbors). You simply can't have it all, I'm afraid.
Derek
I loved living there 1982-1984 . Yeah, if I could afford it I'd retire there. But too $$$$$....
I offer much sincere praise to California. It has many fine attributes, even now, in 2023. But no, for me it doesn't comport with "the dream" at all. In many ways, it's just too much like the Midwest, or at least such holds for my portion of California. Perhaps I belong in Paris, 1920. Or Berlin. Or St. Petersburg, before the revolution. Fantasy, right?
Allowing ourselves to veer into what's perhaps too political of a matter, my dismay, whether in CA or Ohio or elsewhere, is along the lines of the oft-mentioned polarization, but with a different bent. I won't recite attributes of the two sides. It's already been done often enough. But I will ask: what happened to those persons who still revere and study the Western Canon, who think well of the stock market, but who aren't too particular about matters of the bedroom, who don't fly any flags, and who don't pay much attention to the color of one's passport? Where do they live?
I was there in N CA 1982-1984 and 1988 to 2002. It really changed with the advent of the .com / high tech // Silicon Valley thing starting around 1998. Looking back I experienced some of the really good years still. I have not visited since 2013 and I was in downtown SF (which had been overrun by high tech it seemed). I kind of don't want to varnish my memories by visiting now.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Yeah, if I could afford it I'd retire there. But too $$$$$....
