Anyone move to VT from NC, or VT to NC? (Burlington: rental, chapel)
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Hi! I lived in Burlington for a while a few years back (after Cambridge MA), met someone in RI completing a medical residency, moved there to be with her, and together we are looking for places to move when she finishes. I vote to go back to Burlington, she's open to more places. I'm a teacher and off for the summer, so we decided to try living in the Research Triangle for August while she does a month away rotation. We're in Durham right now, but also checked out Raleigh and Chapel Hill. So far so good overall; I like it. Our family is in Mass and Maine, which is a factor for us apart from these things I'm asking about. There are many similarities but also many differences. I do understand the weather and cost of living advantages here in this part of NC, as well as the drive times to mountains and lakes/ocean/beaches, but am more curious about the culture, the political climate, the progressive (or regressive) nature, and overall "vibe" (sorry). Seems to be a big farm-to-table resurgence here, as well as microbrews, which is not unlike the Burlington area. The population is also larger here. I do notice the high density of Duke-affiliated intellectuals/professionals that seem to be 100% white, which makes it feel like Cambridge more than Burlington (not a lot of beards, flannel, or boots here-- out in Ashville, sure, but not here), but I also see the 50% non-white population data when you leave the direct Duke area (statement, not opinion or preference), which reminds me of where I live in the west end of Providence. With that, I have also seen some horrible bumper stickers on trucks, quite a few bars-and-stars confederate flags (on cars and also tshirts), and am a little concerned about the Red state status and the whole "bathroom bill" concept. Socially, we are "liberals" and big fans of you know, not killing other people because they're different than you. This is especially highlighted given the murders in Charlottesville this weekend. So, if anyone here has moved to VT (any part, I used to work in Barre so have a good understanding of the variety in the state) from NC, or vice versa, I'd love to hear your inputs and recommendations. Oh, we are planning to start a family in the next year or two. Thank you very much!
The attitude Raleigh-Durham area exists in a bubble. A big bubble, but definitely a bubble. Vermont's is not. If I were to live in Raleigh-Durham, I would take big steps to participate outside the bubble. Moral Mondays would be a good start.
You forgot to mention the NC legislature also banned the existence of climate change.
I have a brother who lives in Winston-Salem and another who lives in Chapel Hill and I think they have very good lives. Nevertheless, I agree with cgregor that outside of a few educated clusters things have gotten very ugly and hateful down there, and they're getting worse. If you are interested in a liberal political climate you may find things pretty bad in North Carolina.
I hesitate to make this suggestion, though, because having decent people with decent values moving to places like that is one way to foster progressive change. Still, I'm not the one to tell you to sacrifice your quality of life.
Thank you both for the replies. That is what we suspected after being here-- it is indeed a bubble, but a convincing one. I guess without living it there's no real way to know personally if the ostrich's head in the sand approach will be sustainable. I think deep down we'll know it's not real, like the holodeck on Star Trek, but inside the bubble is real so why not let that be your reality and hope to expand its forward progress to the surrounding areas? Then again, I do think it might feel like the old "taxation without representation" and I'm reluctant to pay the salaries for the bigots at the top here. It's a shame VT doesn't have more sunshine or a positive economic outlook beyond Burlington despite so high taxes (again, another version of taxation w/o rep.). I'd rather raise children with Vermont ideals than North Carolina ones, so that might be enough of a deciding factor. I did hear a while back that many millennials and boomers priced out of the coast and averse to Florida are moving to North Carolina and bringing their Democrat – leaning votes and potentially affecting change top down here.
That whole Triangle area is very appealing to me weather and job-wise, and I've visited. But the political and social climate is just not something I think I could deal with on a long term basis. Cost of living, job prospects, etc. are all pretty great though. So it comes down to whether or not you can stay in that more liberal bubble and live your life or if it's going to wear you down over time.
I've had a few friends move down there and they like it, but it's interesting how their attitudes and ideas change/morph to be more in alignment with the hyper-Christian/Red State mentality. They casually say anti-LGBTQ, semi-racist things now that really take me aback—things they NEVER said when they were New Englanders. I'm not saying some New Engladers don't have those thoughts, but it's extremely rare for them to wear them on their sleeves.
I'm sure someone coming up here from there would feel a similar shift. But New England has a much more prevalent Live and Let Live vibe that at least keeps the opinions of others out of your face. I've visited my friends in NC and had complete strangers ask me about my religion right after meeting them. That's the sort of thing a New Englander would NEVER do.
The cultural shift cannot be overstated and I just don't think I'd survive down there.
Thanks, Sporin. I read something similar about strangers asking your religion, usually in the introduction/small talk like "nice to meet you, what do you do for work, what church/parish do you belong to" like it's expected/assumed/part of your identity. Saying I'm not religious would be putting it lightly, and I wouldn't want my future kids to be surrounded by all that Christian dogma (I was put through a catholic elementary school to avoid the poor public system near where I grew up.... never again).
Interesting about the gradual shift in ideas of your friends. It must permeate through the news coverage, what articles pop up, billboards (already saw an anti-evolution billboard down here-- wtf??), and even just a lack of exposure to it. I lived in Cambridge MA, Burlington VT, and Providence RI-- three very pro-LGBTQ cities-- and don't think anything of it.
The rest sure is appealing, though! A Google image search of "durham nc winter" (or spring or fall or summer) shows mountains and scenery just like Vermont, except without the -40 windchills, gray months, lack of sunny days, etc.. Plus there's no sprawl of triple decker rental houses, it's mainly single family craftsman homes not from 1900. It genuinely is a really nice place down here, and there's always an open picnic table at any of the several dog-friendly brewpubs or farm-to-table restaurants. And there aren't all the hippie rock climber flannel bros of BVT, the heavily inked counter-culture hipsters of Providence, or the general weirdos (lol) of Cambridge. So many intelligent, active, "normal" seeming nerds that it really stands out. Plus, home ownership is a reality here and you don't spend all your money on utilities or taxes (literally half as much in taxes here, which is like getting a raise).
Our family is in the Plymouth MA area (south of Boston) and Ellsworth, Maine (between Bangor and Bar Harbor). This means a 4 and 6 hour drive to see both, whereas it'd be less time to fly home from here when you add it all up. That's a tie, not counting money.
Then again, they just toppled a statue downtown and it's pretty tense with the racial issues (appropriately so). We're a few hundred years from real change, so I think I might feel more true to myself to buy some warmer clothes, save up for a sunny vacation in winter, and live with "my people" (forward thinking "live and let live" hardy outdoor folks; Burlington High School has over 50 first languages spoken at home, too, so as a teacher and future parent I would not entirely be starved for new opinions or diversity, even with the mostly white official census makeup).
Read Joe Bageant's memoir of returning to his childhood home town, Deer Hunting with Jesus, to get an idea of what the white NC culture outside Raleigh/Durham and Asheville is. You might do them some good.
Jersey girl looking to escape high taxes.
Spent a year plus looking up and down in Virginia.
Then went down for a final trip last Sept.
Between the rebel flags and the Trump billboards, and the 'what church are you from' preoccupation, it better late than never dawned on me, I'm just a Northern girl.
So began looking in Pioneer Valley Mass and South Eastern Vt.
Found a great place about 8 miles outside of Brattleboro area.
Happy as a clam with our humble place in friendly, live and let live, stunningly beautiful Vt.
I can put up with a lot of things, but one thing I cant abide are those rebel flags and the mentality they represent.
JMO.
Thanks, Robin. I want to say "well it's about time the North pushes south... again" in terms of my moving here and slowly spreading progressive values as a school teacher / community member, but broad change won't happen in my lifetime (I think that's realistic, not defeatist) so why not "live and let live" as you say and raise a family where everything instills the values I believe in? After all, we'll [probably] be dead a long time and so why try to carry the weight of the world? I don't want to feel like I'm turning my back on it hiding up in VT, either, yet won't be running for public office any time soon. I wish it was Star Trek and these issues were sorted out already!
Hi! I lived in Burlington for a while a few years back (after Cambridge MA), met someone in RI completing a medical residency, moved there to be with her, and together we are looking for places to move when she finishes. I vote to go back to Burlington, she's open to more places. I'm a teacher and off for the summer, so we decided to try living in the Research Triangle for August while she does a month away rotation. We're in Durham right now, but also checked out Raleigh and Chapel Hill. So far so good overall; I like it. Our family is in Mass and Maine, which is a factor for us apart from these things I'm asking about. There are many similarities but also many differences. I do understand the weather and cost of living advantages here in this part of NC, as well as the drive times to mountains and lakes/ocean/beaches, but am more curious about the culture, the political climate, the progressive (or regressive) nature, and overall "vibe" (sorry). Seems to be a big farm-to-table resurgence here, as well as microbrews, which is not unlike the Burlington area. The population is also larger here. I do notice the high density of Duke-affiliated intellectuals/professionals that seem to be 100% white, which makes it feel like Cambridge more than Burlington (not a lot of beards, flannel, or boots here-- out in Ashville, sure, but not here), but I also see the 50% non-white population data when you leave the direct Duke area (statement, not opinion or preference), which reminds me of where I live in the west end of Providence. With that, I have also seen some horrible bumper stickers on trucks, quite a few bars-and-stars confederate flags (on cars and also tshirts), and am a little concerned about the Red state status and the whole "bathroom bill" concept. Socially, we are "liberals" and big fans of you know, not killing other people because they're different than you. This is especially highlighted given the murders in Charlottesville this weekend. So, if anyone here has moved to VT (any part, I used to work in Barre so have a good understanding of the variety in the state) from NC, or vice versa, I'd love to hear your inputs and recommendations. Oh, we are planning to start a family in the next year or two. Thank you very much!
It's another world. I would try to stay in blue states now. Even "purple" Midwestern states are better. Especially the numerous college towns. (NORTHERN Midwest)
The Con-Flags and bumper stickers are all you need to know. You will find out more and you will not like it. Stay in Vermont.
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and so why try to carry the weight of the world? I don't want to feel like I'm turning my back on it hiding up in VT, either, yet won't be running for public office any time soon. I wish it was Star Trek and these issues were sorted out already!
