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A. The person you were replying too was four years ago.
B. But, to your point, yes, I have seen unqualified and less qualified individuals hired because of it. While I've seen hires made for both racial and gender reasons, the most blatant was due to gender. "Is there a female on the list?" "Yes." "Hire her, then we don't have to waste time interviewing and no one can argue about the choice."
You are so correct, racism was abolished four years ago, so there is no reason to address it any further.
Your grade-b dialogue from a boardroom scene from a movie that went straight to video doesn't ring true with people who have actually been involved on the hiring committee for employees.
Who do you want doing heart surgery on you; a person qualified for the job, or the person that was the best qualified? You do not need to answer.
Yes, I do need to answer, otherwise you aren't going to become educated in what AA is and how it is done. AA is an attempt to include more groups of people into the talent pool to be considered for hire. If you don't go out of your way to include everyone, you can very well be missing out on that "best qualified" you are referring to. Or are you the kind of person who goes into ER with a serious problem and refuses to be treated by a doctor because he or she is a minority? You are making the assumption in your statement that the best qualified can't be a minority. You don't need to answer, because you've already given yours.
Who do you want doing heart surgery on you; a person qualified for the job, or the person that was the best qualified? You do not need to answer.
It's never as simple as that. No candidate is perfect, all have pros and cons. Do you hire the candidate with the amazing education and sparse experience, or the candidate with shaky education and amazing experience?
We live in an inherently racist society. We segregate into specific neighborhoods, professions, types of music and dress styles. HM are going to understandingly gravitate to those who make them feel comfortable and use the same social graces. AA is an attempt, albeit a rough one, to even out the playing field and account for these biases.
By way of analogy, I am a white male. I have never dated a black woman, not because I don't think there are attractive black women, but I have never had many in my social circle. I don't view myself as racist, but no black gf nonetheless. A job search is a bit like the dating world, where you bring various attributes/skills to the date/job, you look for single people/job openings, you approach/apply, you get a date/job. A crude analogy to be sure, but I hope you get the point. Some people are challenged by way of background, and AA is simple a way to try and address this.
AA is just a foot in the door. Qualifications still rule, nobody gets a job simply because of their skin color.
AA is just a foot in the door. Qualifications still rule, nobody gets a job simply because of their skin color.
Unfortunately that is exactly how AA has operated which has led rightfully to it being attacked in courts and systemically removed in many areas and institutions.
In the Federal Gov't agencies I've worked for, they all take steps to identify and avoid nepotism for most positions. So I've not encountered it.
But, when it comes to summer internships (which must be advertised publicly and are technically competitive), the sons and daughters of managers are often hired.
Remember that young people are told, to network. Network means getting to know people, that can hire other people and/or get your resume given a special evaluation.
Nepotism, is just networking at it's highest level.
When I was an investment real estate broker, the only ones I hired to work in my one man office, was my wife, who managed the office (she was a licensed broker, so she could do brokers duties as needed) and my daughter when she was off for the summer while going to college. I put together a partnership, that owned a large R.V. park. I made my daughter the manager, and my youngest son the manager for upkeep of this 250 space park, who hired his 4 best friends to work for him. The other office workers (my daughter and she did the reservations and space rental) was my wife's older retired sister, and my daughters room mate. I had a very experienced retired maintenance man to take care of things where his expertise was needed. His wife made meals for the staff in our on site kitchen. The ironic thing is their grand daughter came to visit one day, and she was hired to help in the camp store, and assist in reservations and she met and married my 3rd son at the end of the season when we closed. There was housing for all of them. They were all people I could trust, to run it the way I wanted it ran. Family members looked out for my interests, and the friends were going to be assisting and backing up family members more than strangers would. It worked great for 2 summers we owned it.
Small business, is often heavy nepotism. And in larger businesses they may have policy that 2 people cannot work in the same office, etc., but in another department O.K. If they have a child/friend, etc., they can speak to the right person to open doors for that child/friend in another department. Hollywood is a good example. Look and you will see, daughters, sons, nieces, nephews, family friends, are some of the younger stars.
Good Example: George Clooney, went to Hollywood, and get a live in driver job working for his aunt Rosemary Clooney. Going around with her, and meeting her friends, was his start in the business. He has said several times at interviews, if he had not had his aunt to put him up, and given him a job where he would be meeting the people he met, he would never have had a chance in Hollywood to be where he is today in the business. Some families are third and fourth generations, all staring in movies.
Unfortunately that is exactly how AA has operated which has led rightfully to it being attacked in courts and systemically removed in many areas and institutions.
I work in government. There is AA, but my understanding is that the boost is minimal and may help make the cut during the application review (pre interview) phase between two very similarly qualified applicants. Once you get to the interview, you're on your own to make the cut.
As for nepotism, we have the least helpful, least descriptive position titles available. This makes it really hard to know how to apply unless you network and know someone who can point you to the right positions. Any time a position is posted, they say "feel free to tell anyone you know who might qualify to apply" because they know as well that the position titles are not descriptive. A lot of the applicants don't have the right qualifications for that reason. It is basically like Civil Servant 1, Bland Bureaucrat 2, Paper Pusher 3, all of which can be applied to about 20 different job titles. Now they also seem to be doing some position downgrading that needs to be explored from the inside to ensure you aren't actually applying for something well under what you expected based on prior applications.
Are civil service positions do have a pretty rigid system, but if it is an exempt position or a non-civil service position they can pretty much hire anyone as long as you aren't working in the same department as someone who is related to you. We do have relatives coming in, but a lot of times that's because current employees really do know people/family members who actually fit the criteria for the position and they know what Bland Bureaucrat 2's duties actually entail. If you know she is going to meet the criteria and then she has the best application package because she can tailor her application accordingly (typically we do have fairly descriptive advertisements), then she will be fine. A lot of times they also know that you can't just do your standard non-detailed application or you probably won't score high enough to get the interview.
you are so correct, racism was abolished four years ago, so there is no reason to address it any further.
well, i thought perhaps you didn't know this thread had zombied and the person you responded to was four years ago. You know, trying to be helpful.
your grade-b dialogue from a boardroom scene from a movie that went straight to video doesn't ring true with people who have actually been involved on the hiring committee for employees.
you asked a question, i answered with a straight up answer right out of the hiring manager's mouth. I mean i thought when you asked the question you actually wanted an answer. So i guess that only answers which confirm you bias are acceptable? Really?
It is rampant in city/county/state, not nearly as much in federal.
Here in the south, it is really bad. Especially when it comes to small towns/counties. Some families have been holding certain positions hostage for generations.
I worked for the City of Oakland for many, many years and it was and still is rife with nepotism, cronyism - every "ism" you can think of. Not only that, but those people have the stupidity to draw attention to themselves and their undeserved positions by having nasty, privileged attitudes. The Human Resources department is infected with it, and they routinely get rid of other positions so they can create high paying jobs for their and other administrator's family members - despite a so-called tougher nepotism regulation that went into practice years ago - they just go a little further down the family line. one of the City manager's got into hot water about hiring her family - if the City Manager is doing it, you know it's bad.
It seems worse at government jobs than even private jobs - never saw it so rampant and out in the open as when I worked for that crooked City. Our entire department got laid off (over 100 workers) because a City Councilwoman slapped her "friend" as a Director over our department. She then proceeded to wipe us all out - even though SHE was the one that was under-qualified for her position. Did the City Council lift a finger to help us? NO, they put the nail in the coffin by voting that it was okay, all because one of them was personally associated with that woman... So yeah - it happens in the Government sector... a lot.
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