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Nor did I ever suggest that this should be the case.
Didn't mean to imply that you did. I was just elaborating on why it is not petty to be concerned about name-changes for adoptees. It is a very valid concern for many PAPS, APs, adoptees, & the experiences of people who are not adopted do not trivialize concerns for those who are.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 04-25-2013 at 05:46 PM..
There is nothing wrong with a child being grateful to his parents. Adopted or not.
I'm far from a conservative, but in our house, under our roof, the tail doesn't wag the dog.
The argument here will persist because some of you who were adopted call yourself "adoptees" as though it defines everything about yourself.
We know plenty of people who were adopted. They don't use that word. They love and respect and are very grateful to their real parents.
The ones who planned for them, took them on vacations, read to them at night, and paid for college. The people who loved them and said "no" when that was needed and gave them their hearts and souls.
The ones who's names they have. Last, and often first.
Every argument here is a referendum on your rights and your feelings! I am tired of it.
There is nothing wrong with a child being grateful to his parents. Adopted or not.
I'm far from a conservative, but in our house, under our roof, the tail doesn't wag the dog.
The argument here will persist because some of you who were adopted call yourself "adoptees" as though it defines everything about yourself.
We know plenty of people who were adopted. They don't use that word. They love and respect and are very grateful to their real parents.
The ones who planned for them, took them on vacations, read to them at night, and paid for college. The people who loved them and said "no" when that was needed and gave them their hearts and souls.
The ones who's names they have. Last, and often first.
Every argument here is a referendum on your rights and your feelings! I am tired of it.
I don't know an "adoptee". Except on this board.
Of course people don't go around calling themselves adoptees in everyday conversation. Writing on a forum such as this and talking with someone in real life obviously is very different. Most people say "I am adopted", but frankly I have no idea what problem you would have with the word adoptee? I have not seen one person on here say that word "defines everything" about them. How can one word define anyone?
I also don't see why it bothers you so that adoptees are expressing their views on names and adoption. Everyone has a right to assert their rights and feelings here. If you are sick of it, stop reading.
If you say you know people who have been adopted, but you don't know an "adoptee", it's very likely they don't feel comfortable discussing this topic with you. It would be very rare where an adoptee would share their innermost thoughts and feelings to a person that clearly doesn't understand or empathize.
I never said it was up to me. Like you, I gave my honest opinion on the topic with consideration to children who do not want to change their names.
No one should be judged based solely on the fact that they acknowledge they were adopted & you can't assume anything about a person, their life, or family simply because they refer to themselves as an adoptee.
The reality is that original names are important to MANY people who were adopted. APs may have the right to change their child's name completely if they so wish, but it is not always without consequences. That is simply a fact & it is a legitimate concern for many PAPs, APs, etc.
Couldn't agree more. It might be the reason why so many adoptees are invested in learning their given names and seek to obtain their original birth certificates. It cannot be sugarcoated, a given name at birth is a part of their history, and has nothing to do with life after adoption. One of the fist things my son asked me when we reunited was his real name. I still say kids that can verbalize should be asked if they would like their name changed.
The kids have lost enough via relinquishment... taking their name from them without their permission is simply another loss that can not be denied.
I do hope you can adopt an older girl - just be aware that our government will not approve adopting children over sixteen unless they are part of a sibling group. However, if you can commit to a specific child prior to their sixteen birthday, the actual adoption can take place after that child turns sixteen.
Only if the child has been in your care for two years and I don't believe that a foreign child could immigrate two years prior to adoption. The adoption really has to happen before age 16. I really don't know why the US has such a law considering that anyone under 18 is legally still a child.
There is nothing wrong with a child being grateful to his parents. Adopted or not.
I'm far from a conservative, but in our house, under our roof, the tail doesn't wag the dog.
The argument here will persist because some of you who were adopted call yourself "adoptees" as though it defines everything about yourself.
We know plenty of people who were adopted. They don't use that word. They love and respect and are very grateful to their real parents.
The ones who planned for them, took them on vacations, read to them at night, and paid for college. The people who loved them and said "no" when that was needed and gave them their hearts and souls.
The ones who's names they have. Last, and often first.
Every argument here is a referendum on your rights and your feelings! I am tired of it.
I don't know an "adoptee". Except on this board.
I'm not sure which adoptee you are directing the above to but it sounds to me that this is more about your feelings. Sorry if I misread.
There is nothing wrong with a child being grateful to his parents. Adopted or not.
I'm far from a conservative, but in our house, under our roof, the tail doesn't wag the dog.
The argument here will persist because some of you who were adopted call yourself "adoptees" as though it defines everything about yourself.
We know plenty of people who were adopted. They don't use that word. They love and respect and are very grateful to their real parents.
The ones who planned for them, took them on vacations, read to them at night, and paid for college. The people who loved them and said "no" when that was needed and gave them their hearts and souls.
The ones who's names they have. Last, and often first.
Every argument here is a referendum on your rights and your feelings! I am tired of it.
I don't know an "adoptee". Except on this board.
This is a forum. We of the adopted persuasion could go around on these forums and say "as people who were adopted" but that means we have to type 22 letters (not including the spaces). It is of course easier to type "adoptee" which is 7 letters.
As dogluvr pointed out, I doubt that anyone on here actually uses the word "adoptee" in every day life. I certainly don't go around saying "I'm Susankate and I'm an adoptee". In fact, I'm not entirely sure whether I'd even heard of the word "adoptee" until I came online. I first joined a forum where there were subforums divided into "adoptive parents", "birth parents" and "adoptees", thus those are the terms that are generally used online. I will continue to call myself "adoptee" online as I want to save my fingers.
As for this:
Quote:
We know plenty of people who were adopted. They don't use that word. They love and respect and are very grateful to their real parents.
Where I and others may differ is that we are now able to separate things. For example, I, like many other people, adopted or non-adopted, am grateful for growing up in a loving home. Does it necessarily have to follow that I am grateful for being in a position where adoption was considered the answer? That doesn't mean I go through life saying "Woe is me, I'm an adoptee" but just that I don't want gratefulness forced on me.
As for the following:
Quote:
They feel blessed, and yes, I will use the word grateful to have been chosen for adoption.
I am sure that given the choice of an orphanage or adoption, most children would prefer adoption. However, I am sure that most would wish that they never had to be an in orphanage to start with, they would no doubt much rather have been born into and raised in a loving home. Now before anyone says their biological homes weren't loving so that wasn't an option - I get that but that isn't the point of what I am saying. What I'm trying to say is that it can be a two part thing and I am hoping that one day, people get that. That is, one can be grateful that one was adopted out of the orphanage without actually having to be grateful that they were in the orphanage to begin with. Btw they may be grateful but that is THEIR right - it should NOT be forced on anyone, nor should anyone feel guilted into feeling grateful.
Sadly people do seem to get confused there and seem to think that because one might be happier to have been adopted rather than "in the system", whether orphanage or foster home, then one must therefore be happy about all aspect of adoption and how children come to be adopted.
The two things that some of my fellow adoptees and I on this board have in common is that some of us are domestic adoptees and some of us have reunited with biological families. This means that we now see that things in a more nuanced way. We don't tie things together, i.e. we know realise that it is possible to be grateful to have grown up in a loving home without having to feel grateful that we were in a position where we were born into another family before arriving in our new family.
Some of us now realise that we can't just say "I'm so glad that my birthmother gave me up for adoption" because we now know our birthfamilies and/or bparents and see them as human beings and understand that things went on before our adoption that are more complex.
Many of us have been on online forums with birthparents and adoptive parents and we can now understand that when some birthparents read things like this, it breaks their heart that they weren't the ones doing all those things. To many birthparents I've known online, the following are things they would have loved to have done for their child:
Quote:
The ones who planned for them, took them on vacations, read to them at night, and paid for college. The people who loved them and said "no" when that was needed and gave them their hearts and souls.
The ones who's names they have. Last, and often first.
Some of us adoptees therefore have developed compassion for many birthparents. Many have seen in real life that their birthparents thought about them. Not all birthparents are worthy of compassion and I get that. However, many are.
As for my own personal situation, I accept my life as it is. Does that mean though that because I am happy that I should just let any irregularities in adoption go? I just don't feel the end justifies the means. You know, when it comes to animal adoption and/or trafficking irregularities, no-one ever talks about the "end" because it is irrelevant, we know that irregularities in animal adoption and/or trafficking should be addressed in themselves. I've never heard anyone say "but those lions/tigers/birds etc have found loving homes" because we know that is irrelevant - it is the process of how they got there that is important. Same with adoption. There are irregularities in many aspects of adoption and it behooves us all to address those irregularities. We can't just say "Ah well, they are in a happy home now, it doesn't matter how they got there". Please note that I do believe everyone's adoption on this forum is as above board as they could have been, so please note that I am not accusing anyone on here at all. Having said that, the interesting thing I've noticed on many other adoption forums is that ethics does seem to be in adoptive parent's court, rather than something forced through law. That is not fair on anyone, including the adoptive parents (many online APs I know have tried to be as ethical as possible and found that not everyone lives up to their standards).
Kinda makes our concerns about changing names seem a little petty, doesn't it?
If a child did want to keep their name, would you consider it petty for them to want to do so? Keeping or not keeping their name has nothing to do with being in an orphanage or whatever.
The point is that it is up to the child to decide on whether they wish to keep their name if they are at an age to be able to make that decision. It is OK to be concerned on behalf of the child.
If an older child does wish to keep his name, that is his right. It is HIS name - just because it might have been chosen by awful biological parents doesn't make it any less so. If he hates it, then he can change it. Some children actually might have a nice name that they don't want to change - even bad biological parents can chose nice names.
Now, there may be times when a name in one language may not transfer as well to another language, thus in that case, the adoptive parents can inform them of that. For example, some Korean names can be similar to some words in English - I once had a Koreen patient where I worked whose given names were Dong Bum. Naturally, in that case, it would be wise to let the child know that those names may be unfortunate in English speaking countries and then let him chose something else.
In regards to infants, it doesn't bother me so much - I like my first name. Having said that, I am glad to know I was given a name at birth (even if I'm not sure who gave it to me). In regards to my older siblings, I prefer their adoptive first names to their birthnames but I am sure they like knowing they were named.
In regards to my younger brother, he actually chose his own nickname when he was about 14 and we have all called him that ever since. He doesn't really like his adoptive first name (doesn't really suit him) - funnily enough, his birthname starts with the same first 2 letters.
Last edited by susankate; 04-25-2013 at 08:28 PM..
Ukraine has about a month to get to know the child. During that time, they would find out what we are about, and since we do not sugar coat anything, they would also know.
This is a closed adoption with new parents.
I'd liken it to a divorce. They would be recovering from their former family. We would help them with that, professionally, if needed.
It's a closed adoption. Good bye to abuse and neglect. Hello to parents , their FIRST, love, stability, direction and care.
A new life. New parents. They get it. Some of you might not.
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