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Tatum is in the talks for regular season mvp, butler never came close to be considered for that in his whole career.
The bulls didnt want to pay butler so they sign and traded him to the wolves. The wolves traded butler to the sixers and kept kat and wiggins. The sixers didn't want to pay butler, chose to keep simmons, pay harris, and sign and traded butler to the heat.
Jimmy is a sf, but as a starting sf he doesnt have the length. He can the sg and has great size as a starter, but he is quick as a above average starting sg, so he is a natural sf. I read somewhere that neck and head height is wasted height, jimmy has a long head and neck, so his shoulders are lower than average for a 6'6 barefoot guy. Thats probably part of the reason why all the teams let him go and didnt want to pay him. Playoff butler is another thing, but many teams will pay tatum, brown, etc. Size for position really matters when getting paid, unless they are elite of the elite, like cp3, iverson, etc. The whole brown vs butler thing is butler is a starting sf, brown is a starting sg, but he sometimes start at sf and tatum at pf. Brown is more of a sg, and he has an inch of standing reach over butler. With all the switches on defense, having size matters. When herro and his short arms is playing sg, butler at sf, they are a very small team. Tatum has a 8'10.5 reach, paired up with browns 8'6.5 reach. Compared to butlers 8'5.5, herros 8'4.5. All of this matters in strals, rebounds, team defense.
These kind of measurements matter for a player's draft status and those first couple "prospect" years. After that, it's all about how you play. I really doubt Thibs starting double checking Jimmy's wingspan when he started making All-Defensive teams
From what I remember, Jimmy wanted out of Chicago as they were tanking. He refused to stay in Minnesota because of how soft KAT et al. Philly choose to pay Tobias Harris instead, which should make your head hurt. Miami is a win away from their third Finals appearance since he signed there...........and I doubt anyone down there is measuring his neck and head length as they try to close Boston out.
These kind of measurements matter for a player's draft status and those first couple "prospect" years. After that, it's all about how you play. I really doubt Thibs starting double checking Jimmy's wingspan when he started making All-Defensive teams
From what I remember, Jimmy wanted out of Chicago as they were tanking. He refused to stay in Minnesota because of how soft KAT et al. Philly choose to pay Tobias Harris instead, which should make your head hurt. Miami is a win away from their third Finals appearance since he signed there...........and I doubt anyone down there is measuring his neck and head length as they try to close Boston out.
Yeah, but throughout history most teams dont give out max contracts or are reluctant to give them out to players thats small for their position. Depends on how big the teams market is. But there are the allen iversons, donovan mitchells, and chris pauls. You have to be very quick and elite to make up for the small size. Butler throughout his career cant just go to the lakers and demand a max contract. Theres a reason where his whole career he has to fight to get respected and he is never considered elite. Those short arms plays a role, and he couldnt transform himself to play shooting guard full time. He has to hustle every game and play out of his mind to get respect.
Same like cj McCollum, he couldn't switch to pg, had he done it he would have gotten a max contract and had been a all star due ro his great size at the position. There are many players that are tweeners but cant play a position lower.
Yeah, but throughout history most teams dont give out max contracts or are reluctant to give them out to players thats small for their position. Depends on how big the teams market is. But there are the allen iversons, donovan mitchells, and chris pauls. You have to be very quick and elite to make up for the small size. Butler throughout his career cant just go to the lakers and demand a max contract. Theres a reason where his whole career he has to fight to get respected and he is never considered elite. Those short arms plays a role, and he couldnt transform himself to play shooting guard full time. He has to hustle every game and play out of his mind to get respect.
Same like cj McCollum, he couldn't switch to pg, had he done it he would have gotten a max contract and had been a all star due ro his great size at the position. There are many players that are tweeners but cant play a position lower.
I think you are putting the cart before the horse, as they say. If there is a reason "tweeners" don't get big contracts it is because their game is deficient in multiple ways and teams see it. The "tweeners" who get paid are players whose size/wingspan/measurables have NOT affected the way they play, and thus it doesn't matter and they get paid.
I've lost the thread of the conversation. It started by stating Jaylen Brown was worth more now than Jimmy Butler because he is younger and has longer arms. I think the series is making it clear Jimmy Butler is worth more because he is a superior basketball player right now, and it isn't a close comparison to be blunt.
I think you are putting the cart before the horse, as they say. If there is a reason "tweeners" don't get big contracts it is because their game is deficient in multiple ways and teams see it. The "tweeners" who get paid are players whose size/wingspan/measurables have NOT affected the way they play, and thus it doesn't matter and they get paid.
I've lost the thread of the conversation. It started by stating Jaylen Brown was worth more now than Jimmy Butler because he is younger and has longer arms. I think the series is making it clear Jimmy Butler is worth more because he is a superior basketball player right now, and it isn't a close comparison to be blunt.
Im just going by in general. Teams dont want to overpay any player. There are tweeners who get max contracts but they must be very talented. There are tweeners who dont get a max.
The butler vs brown debate, now if its the start of the playoffs it most likely will be towards brown, but after what butler showcased in these playoffs, its a different story. No one knew he had this in him. Next contract brown will get supermax wince he is eligible. Butler screamed at the wolves higher ups "pay me" during the practice, bulls didnt want to pay him max, sixers paid harris, kept ben. Thats the difference between brown and butler in terms of getting paid. Alot of teams will give brown max.
Im just going by in general. Teams dont want to overpay any player. There are tweeners who get max contracts but they must be very talented. There are tweeners who dont get a max.
The butler vs brown debate, now if its the start of the playoffs it most likely will be towards brown, but after what butler showcased in these playoffs, its a different story. No one knew he had this in him. Next contract brown will get supermax wince he is eligible. Butler screamed at the wolves higher ups "pay me" during the practice, bulls didnt want to pay him max, sixers paid harris, kept ben. Thats the difference between brown and butler in terms of getting paid. Alot of teams will give brown max.
I just don't see it on the court or in the advanced numbers. Brown is a high volume, average efficiency scorer who is a negative player of defense. Maybe he needs to start using that wingspan, because right now advanced stats rate him as a literally a league average player in terms of stats like PER, Win Shares per 48, and BPM. I do see him as a switchable on defense, which does help with that team.
I also think "chuckers" are undervalued by advanced stats, it's hard to score in volume night after night.
I think he has a year or two left on his contract, so I guess we see what happens. The idea somebody pays him the max isn't crazy.......I just think he would be way overpaid at that rate.
I just don't see it on the court or in the advanced numbers. Brown is a high volume, average efficiency scorer who is a negative player of defense. Maybe he needs to start using that wingspan, because right now advanced stats rate him as a literally a league average player in terms of stats like PER, Win Shares per 48, and BPM. I do see him as a switchable on defense, which does help with that team.
I also think "chuckers" are undervalued by advanced stats, it's hard to score in volume night after night.
I think he has a year or two left on his contract, so I guess we see what happens. The idea somebody pays him the max isn't crazy.......I just think he would be way overpaid at that rate.
Thats why every year draft prospects get measured and its so important. Talent beats out length but its very rare. Theres a ton of college players that never make it to the nba but have excellent size for their position in the nba. Theres a reason draymond green went to the second round. Had he been a sf, he probably would have been chosen #20. I would take jimmy butler over some 6'9 sf with a 7'4 wingspan who barely make it to the nba.
Thats why every year draft prospects get measured and its so important. Talent beats out length but its very rare. Theres a ton of college players that never make it to the nba but have excellent size for their position in the nba. Theres a reason draymond green went to the second round. Had he been a sf, he probably would have been chosen #20. I would take jimmy butler over some 6'9 sf with a 7'4 wingspan who barely make it to the nba.
Draymond doesn't have a real "position" and that hurts your draft status. He lucked out landing on a team that was forward thinking and open minded about his role. I actually don't think he ends up an impact player on lots of other teams, maybe only gets minutes as a energy big and doesn't develop. It really took Kerr being OK with a undersize big who can't shoot but likes to pass being given the role of primary playmaker AND rim defender.......a weird combination for a 6'6'' guy, but Dray is one of a kind, love him or not.
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Originally Posted by accord2008
Im just going by in general. Teams dont want to overpay any player. There are tweeners who get max contracts but they must be very talented. There are tweeners who dont get a max.
The butler vs brown debate, now if its the start of the playoffs it most likely will be towards brown, but after what butler showcased in these playoffs, its a different story. No one knew he had this in him. Next contract brown will get supermax wince he is eligible. Butler screamed at the wolves higher ups "pay me" during the practice, bulls didnt want to pay him max, sixers paid harris, kept ben. Thats the difference between brown and butler in terms of getting paid. Alot of teams will give brown max.
Butler certainly demonstrated this same tenacity and ability to carry the team on his shoulders during the Playoff bubble in 2020 and again last year in the series v Boston in which he scored more than 40 points twice and 35 points in game 7.
Last edited by elchevere; 05-22-2023 at 03:34 PM..
Heat better keep it close or be ahead coming out of the first half next game. Celtics have too many good & streaky shooters to let them get a nice lead. Celtics can build a large lead in no time.
Ok, I want these leprechauns gone. I need to get my can of "Celtics be gone." What is going on with the Heat? They have to end it in Miami. Stat!
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