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Interesting post, Jade. I didn't even know what a foreclosure was until I heard about Cleveland! There are no boarded up houses in any neighborhoods that I know.
In terms of treatment of immigrants, if you ask a Canadian 'should immigrants be allowed into Canada?' the answer is YES, if you ask a Canadian 'should immigrants be allowed to compete for your jobs?' ... well then their tune changes. Canada has a Doctor shortage and look at all the Immigrant Health Professionals (some I know personally) that our Health Profressional Bodies prevent from working (with that in mind, how does Canada score so high on quality of life indexes?)
What I'd like do know is, which country gives Foreign-Trained-Professional Immigrants worse (or better) treatment, Canada or the US?
Foreclosure and bankruptcy is a very popluar word these days especially with subprime lenders. Either way, any professional coming from another country will need to meet the certification and licensing standards of the United States which is quite understandable. Who gets better treatment, I am inclined to say that that all depends on the individuals... I remember being pregnant with my now 19 year old son and an African American women was highly upset that the gynecologist who will be examining her was an African (black African) doctor. She stormed out of the office spewing profanity stating that that African....B....h was not touching her. I felt so ashamed for the doctor as she literally burst into tears. My point is ignorance in intollerance is everywhere, we as Americans pretend that we are very accepting when in reality is most are saying immigrant go back to where you came from.
As for the better quality of life, we can't say that the American health system is the best in the world, because bottom line is money talks b.s walks..We now have doctors who refuses to take insurance, either pay in cash or go someplace else. Mind you participating doctors will get much less from an insurance oppose to a cash paying customer. In addition, an American study (forgot the name of the college) did research and find that quality of life was better in Canada as well as people being healthier and living longer were better in Canada...Their studies concluded that free health care made people more likely to visit their doctors while Americans were more leary of going to the doctors because deductibles and co-insurances were too high as well as they simply cannot afford to have health insurance. Honestly I can see where that is coming from, I remember after paying $192.00 per pay period out of my check I still could not go to the doctor because my Co-pay per visit was $50.00 and my medications on that particular insurance was well over $140.00. Now that I have better health insurance, I can still go to the doctor, but still have to pay a $500.00 deductible, $92.00 monthly for my prescriptions and then there are those 20%Co-insurances... no wonder people are staying away from the doctors how can you pay so much for health insurance and still can't afford to go to the doctors. I will take free healthcare over a politically controlled health insurance provider any time.
To be fair and above board, KW, posters should know that you have a personal situation regarding foreign health workers:
Firstly of all, yes I do have a personal situation here, so my opinions are based on my personal experience (which is pretty standard, eh?). Second of all, it goes beyond my personal situation, I have met more people beyond my wife in the same boat, including: my friend's mother, people at the immigration office in Hamilton and from several things I have read both from the internet and outside the internet. I don't think it is fair to imply I wasn't being fair – if I started every post with: 'my wife has had difficulty ... with such and such ... ' – people would be like enough already – we don't need your whole history everytime you post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1
While the current system for determining the eligibility of foreign credentials may not be perfect, and is certainly frustrating for some of those personally involved, I think you'll find that most countries do not just accept foreign credentials at face value.
Many countries, Canada and the US included, require immigrants in all sorts of professions to meet the same standards and pass the same qualification exams as citizens have had to.
The rationale is that the system ensures that patients can be assured that all practicioners meet the relevent standards.
This situation does not just apply to the health profession. Immigrants working as plumbers, electricians, truck drivers, etc, must also meet the applicable federal/provincial standards before being allowed to hang up their shingle.
1 wrong doesn't make a right – just because other professions or countries do it – doesn't make it right. This is just the same rhetoric that these professional bodies use to justify their actions – 'we'll look at the other guy – they do it...'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1
Immigrants who have done their due diligence surely are aware before they move to Canada that they will have to become qualified here before being allowed to engage in their chosen field.
According to who are they not already qualified? You are good at what you do, right? So what if you went to another country and had to write an exam with 100 people who did the same line of work as you – then they only took the top 5 from the exam. It's not just about passing the exam! (Although you are proof that many people don't realize these things). It's not just about meeting standards. There was a case of a Doctor from the UK who wanted to work near Chatham, Ontario where they have a doctor shortage – he had 30 years of experience. He even found a doctor from Chatham to agree to be his supervisor. The Doctors of Ontario refused to register him. He appealed before the Health Professions Appeal and Review Board of Ontario – and won his appeal!!! But that doesn't automatically mean that the Doctors will register him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1
It may not be a perfect system, but to link it to some kind of covert racist view might be stretching things.
I never said that! I don't think they are racist. But I wonder, and I'm not the first one to say it, that there is some form of discrimination going on.
I don't think the system is a good one. And I've done quite a lot of research on this topic – that doesn't mean I'm right about everything – that's just where I'm coming from.
The thing is I'm brought up Canadian – and things that I have discovered I don't find are very Canadian, can you at least see what I am saying to some extent? And that is why I think Canadians should look at themselves before criticizing Americans.
Either way, any professional coming from another country will need to meet the certification and licensing standards of the United States which is quite understandable.
Are you sure about that? It is only about meeting standards? How do you know that?
I can't comment on the USA. But in Ontario, Canada in the Health area it goes well beyound that. I have looked at information from nearly 10 different health professional regulatory bodies in Ontario and there basically 2 ways they access immigrants:
1) They compare the immigrant's curriculum with the Ontario curriculum and if it's even 5% different - they won't even consider how many years you've worked - it's sorry - you're not worth anything to us - they won't even let you write an exam! There was a recent appeal before the Health Professions Appeal and Review Board of Ontario (Health Professions Appeal and Review Board) between a foreign-trained Dietician and the Dieticians of Ontario. The Dieticians of Ontario said the foreign-trained immigrant had about 150 of the required 160 credits - and basically told the dietician - sorry but your education is not equivalent - tough luck! And the Dietician immigrant won his appeal!!! But that doesn't neccessarily mean he'll be able work in Canada as a Dietician.
2) All the forgein-trained immigrants write an exam and the top whatever percent (around top 5% for dentistry) get attmitted back to school where they may have to spend about 2 years. It's not about being qualified or standards or experience - it's about how well you can beat other immigrants at some test. If I had to write an exam amongst people in my field, I doubt I'd get in the top 5% - top 25% maybe. Does that mean I'm not qualified to work in my field?
So I don't know how things work in the US. But getting back to the topic of the post: Canadians should look at themselves and know what's going on in Canada before criticizing Americans!
It is quite normal and only common sense that a person should be educated and tested to meet the requirements they claim to possess. I don't care what country you come from, you have to prove your abilities. There are states here in the USA that requires you to get licensing in their state even if you are licensed in another state. I have a friend who is an LPN from New York and she had to take her test here in Florida to be licensed here in Florida.
You can't take this personally but for the safety and protection of the country, no matter what country you live in, you should be required to prove your skills if you profess to be a licensed or certified professional. Besides, each country has their own standards, why should you, me or anyone else be given special priviliges? If it means being retrained to do things the way Canadians wants it to be done then so be it, if those are the requirements I can either accept it or try and find someplace else that will accept my license?
It is quite normal and only common sense that a person should be educated and tested to meet the requirements they claim to possess. I don't care what country you come from, you have to prove your abilities. There are states here in the USA that requires you to get licensing in their state even if you are licensed in another state. I have a friend who is an LPN from New York and she had to take her test here in Florida to be licensed here in Florida.
You can't take this personally but for the safety and protection of the country, no matter what country you live in, you should be required to prove your skills if you profess to be a licensed or certified professional. Besides, each country has their own standards, why should you, me or anyone else be given special priviliges? If it means being retrained to do things the way Canadians wants it to be done then so be it, if those are the requirements I can either accept it or try and find someplace else that will accept my license?
It looks like we are comparing apples to oranges? Maybe?
If they were to give the immigrants the same test everyone else had to write and then use the same cut-off as everyone else for a passing mark - that would be fair. But in Ontario, Canada, they don't do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In Ontario they may re-train something like 10% in the health field - the other 90% get nothing -they have to start from 0!!!!!! How is that fair!!!!! I'm not asking for special priviledges - just fairness!
When you say immigrants have to prove their abilities - I agree!!! But it has to be done in a fair way! How is not letting an immigrant even take the exam fair?
How is taking only the top 5% (in the exam) fair? And not even looking at the other 95%? That is the way it is for Dentistry in Ontario, Canada! Your post would suggest to me that you didn't realize that.
What do you have to base it on that this is being done in a fair way? Fair is what I am trying to get accross. I never suggested not to test them or evaluate them!
And New York is not a foriegn country! And I'm not commenting on the US anyway - maybe it is fair or fairer in the US. I am commenting on Ontario, Canada. There is where I've done my reasearch on!
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassner
I'm amazed at all the Americans who glibly talk about moving to Canada so naively. They have no idea what they would be getting themselves into. Here's a little heads up to consider before you move.
1. Bring your thick skin. Anti-Americanism in Canada is very strong and always has been. You will never feel like you really belong because America and Americans are continually under attack from the media and most of the political spectrum. This isn't a Bush phenomenon. It is Canada. The first thing any American must understand about Canada is that their national identity consists entirely of not being American.
2. Once you live in Canada for a while, you will find getting out hard. Canada has this little tax thing called called "deemed disposition" where they rape anyone with capital gains who moves out of the country.
3. prepare to be sick. Despite what you may hear, the Canadian medical system is horrible. Routine procedures have waiting lists of 8-10 months. It is virtually impossible to find a family doctor in most large Canadian cities.
4. Taxes. Nuff aid.
I did live in Canada and go there every year for the past 25 years. What you said is correct. Not only are the taxes outragous everything and I mean EVERYTHING is cost far more in Canada. The anti-American speech does get under the skin but my Canadian friends and relatives say "it's just sibling rivalry". Ok....sure.
I still like Canada and only wish the best for them since I have family that lives there. They have been begging me to move back every time I go there. Not me, no way.
Ok Not to stray off the subject, but I'm curious is the Canadian government just as greedy as Uncle Sam when it comes to milking the people of money? Honestly, if someone had to foreclose on their home, who will he or she be able to afford to pay taxes on it anyway? Please read this article and let me know if the same applies to Canadians who are down on the luck. Lost your home? You may owe IRS - Selling Your House - MSN Real Estate
Ok Not to stray off the subject, but I'm curious is the Canadian government just as greedy as Uncle Sam when it comes to milking the people of money? Honestly, if someone had to foreclose on their home, who will he or she be able to afford to pay taxes on it anyway? Please read this article and let me know if the same applies to Canadians who are down on the luck. Lost your home? You may owe IRS - Selling Your House - MSN Real Estate
I don't know a whole lot on this subject but I understand that mortgage payments are a tax deduction in the States (?) In Canada they are not. So that may be the reason your government is trying to collect.
Here, there are cases of foreclosure and/or bankruptcy. But not as common as they have been having in the states. I think the reason is that the lenders have been more careful in Canada. Also, in Canada, if you can not put 1/4 down, around 3% of the value of the house is added to your mortgage, which is sort of a protection for the lender, in the case the home-owner defaults on the mortgage. And if your Down payment is 0%, your mortgage rate will be higher than normal.
I like Canada because their socially much better off than the United States. They don't treat the rich, white, straight, men better than everyone else.. United States is supposed to be the land of the free, but I think we're taking a different direction? Maybe after 2008 things will get better for the U.S.A.
SunSpirit when we sold our homes in New York, we were told that we could not get the money without being heavily taxed because we were not over the age of 65. We had to purchase another home with that money and had 6 months to close the deal. Talk about being pissed off.
Check with the IRS, I've heard something about not paying taxes on the sale of a home anytime, but you can only do it once....So becareful because in later years you may want to sell a home worth alot more..and you will have to pay taxes...I'd check this out with the IRS to be sure....
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