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I don't understand why some people on this seem to be advocating for war, while themselves are comfortably sitting down behind a computer screen. If a large scale conflict was to start between Ukraine and Russia, no one will be happy ultimately. Millions of people will lose their homes, their loved ones, and also their lives. It is naïve to believe that if a large scale conflict was to start it would be restricted to the border between Ukraine and Russia. It will have repercussions on the whole world.
Germany was united January 1871 and Italy was united 1861 which is little different from 1954.
Russians have a language, a cuisine and a culture. Germany and Italy had a language, cuisine and a culture.
If you time traveled to 1800, you would recognize an Italian city from a Germany one. The Italian population which be different from a German population. They would speak a different language, eat different food, go to different Churches, have different traditions, and celebrate different holidays. Even Poland and Russia have distinct languages, cuisine, religions and cultures. None of this could be said about the Ukraine.
When the Ukrainians had their 2014 Revolution, the first act was to outlaw the Russian language. Well, Crimea is nearly all Russians - over 80% of the population - their first language is Russian. Add to this that the new Ukrainian government are Neo-Nazi who committed genocide during and after WWII. Putin had no choice but to protect Crimea.
Why is the US always dealing with bad partners - first the Taliban and now the Neo-Nazi Ukrainians.
Italy and Germany have always been hetrogenious countries. Same with Russia. Germany when united had a really large Polish minority. It was also really divided with the Catholic South and Protestant north. It also has different dialects spoken there too. Italy when it was unified over a hundred years had over 100 languages spoken. The People of places like Naples area spoke a different language compared to places such as Venice as a first language. Plus Italy today has regions where German is spoken as a first language.
Russia has always been diverse and the census over 120 years ago really showed that. such as the Tatars from Central Russia, the Crimea Tatars, Ukrainians, Poles, Jews, Georgians, Etc.
Well the Crimea Tatars are traditional lands are in Crimea. They were largely deported from Crimea by Stalin orders at the end of WW2, and not allowed to go back to their traditional lands until after Stalin death. I would not say that Crimea where nearly everyone spoke Russian as a first language. Look at this map of Crimea to see why: Map: Russian language dominant in Crimea | Al Jazeera America
Most likely the story will repeat as always: the west will get their ass kicked, just ask Napoleon and Hitler. Russia cannot be defeated in a war or to be more specific: it cannot be defeated in a war that it knows it can't loose. One thing is to loose in Afghanistan, another to loose ww1, ww2 or Ukraine. Ukraine is seen as a historical part of Russia, no one buys western propaganda that "all the white eastern europeans are against the black russians"...well they aren't lol, I'm not even sure what cnn are on anymore.
If i am not mistaking, Germany and France during the reign of Hitler/Napoleon, were actually fighting multifront wars with "The West" at the time they invaded Russia. I am not sure if the current administration in Russia would be prepared to burn Moscow to the ground to deny enemy supply chains either?
Still I don't think they could take Russia, too big and too well defended, forcing them out of Western Ukraine is a different story, especially if its the only front of any war.
Last edited by danielsa1775; 02-20-2022 at 10:13 PM..
Germany and Italy didn't exist just 200 years ago. Poland historically was split among different countries over the course of centuries. So according to your statement, if some foreign country decided to invade and annex them it would be a legitimate move on the grounds that they are recently independent countries?
If Ukraine's existence as an independent nation makes no sense because it is not 100% ethnically homogeneous, then most countries in this world have no reason to be, in particular Russia. It is nothing but patchwork of people who have next to nothing in common other than living under the Kremlin's rule. The Russians preferred to go through 2 bloody wars rather than allow Chechnya to go on its own.
NO that's NOT what doesn't make sense.
What doesn't make sense, is why would after the so-called "Revolution of dignity" all of a sudden Ukraine had to become "100% homogeneous."
If Canada for example would have outlawed French and made English the only official language there, can you imagine the ruckus, the indignation coming in?
But when the first law that "free and democratic" Ukrainian state implements is the "language law," all the "free democratic world" remains silent.
Germany was united January 1871 and Italy was united 1861 which is little different from 1954.
Russians have a language, a cuisine and a culture. Germany and Italy had a language, cuisine and a culture.
If you time traveled to 1800, you would recognize an Italian city from a Germany one. The Italian population which be different from a German population. They would speak a different language, eat different food, go to different Churches, have different traditions, and celebrate different holidays. Even Poland and Russia have distinct languages, cuisine, religions and cultures. None of this could be said about the Ukraine.
When the Ukrainians had their 2014 Revolution, the first act was to outlaw the Russian language. Well, Crimea is nearly all Russians - over 80% of the population - their first language is Russian. Add to this that the new Ukrainian government are Neo-Nazi who committed genocide during and after WWII. Putin had no choice but to protect Crimea.
Why is the US always dealing with bad partners - first the Taliban and now the Neo-Nazi Ukrainians.
You'd think someone would see a red flag right there, ( talking about "democratic European aspirations" of Ukraine) but as amazing as it is... nope. Not a word.
It was all good by the "free and democratic world."
( And then they are getting surprised why Russians are not ready to part with Putin and to embrace that "freedom and democracy" of the West.)
Are Eastern Europeans falling for anti-Russian propaganda?
I don't think many Eastern Europeans are falling for Russian propaganda. Most Eastern Europeans will be glad to be part of NATO now and not being threatened to be invaded like the Ukraine, a sovereign country. And most are happy to live in democracies with independent media, fair elections, etc. unlike Belarus and Russia.
And what "Russian propaganda" EXACTLY are we talking at this point may I ask?
Eastern Europeans blame Russia for all these problems and NATO just flies under the radar.
When will they wake up?
Invasion of Georgia in 2008, Invasion of Ukraine in 2014 etc. Nobody is just blamiung Russia, it's a fact that Russia is the main culprit. So what is "Anti-Russian" propaganda?
Invasion of Georgia in 2008, Invasion of Ukraine in 2014 etc. Nobody is just blamiung Russia, it's a fact that Russia is the main culprit. So what is "Anti-Russian" propaganda?
Invasion of Iraq, invasion of Vietnam, it's a fact that America is the main culprit. So what is the "anti-ameican" propaganda?
Here we go again - it's "sovereign" in the name only.
So obviously Russia ( or rather Putin) shouldn't play by the fake rules prescribed to him - he is no fool you know.
But with saying that, I can only point at what I was pointing already long time ago.
Back in the 90ies the US were trying to pull a fast one, turning Russia into the appendix for the natural resources - a semi-colony so to speak, the situation she was in prior to the 1917. ( So someone, somewhere was trying to revert the "positions of power" back to what it was a century ago.)
But the plan didn't quite work out as intended - this damn Putin popped out of nowhere, just when America ( and whoever) thought that they were having it all under control with Yeltsin at helm.
And this Putin made "his army" smaller, but meaner and leaner with the help of those coveted natural resources ( double damn, since it kept the Russian economy afloat too.)
And this was troublesome enough, that back in 2014 the US decided to use the plan "B" and to cut Ukraine off Russia ( since it was a long -standing doctrine "how to weaken Russia.")
And again America was planning to pull the fast one - to hire the Nationalists, to kill/expel all the "disagreed" - the rest will keep silence when threatened.
Of course Putin should have acted right there, when this so-called "sovereignty" went down the tube and Ukraine became American playground instead of his plans (he was hoping to expand his economy there, obviously.)
But he didn't do it for certain reason ( won't dwell on it now, since I don't want to digress,) with a notable exception of Crimea, obviously.
That mistake ( of not acting right there, back in 2014) was costly, so he has to face it now.
Because truth to be told - of course all the South-East of Ukraine are historic Russian territories and are vital for Russia's security, as Putin realizes more and more. ( There is no mistake that now all the Western embassies are running to the Western part of the country, that didn't share history with Russia.)
The rest remains to be seen.
The "fast one" that the West was trying to pull already twice with Russia is not working out of course, so all these borders are not carved in stone.
Why am I going through all this again? Because it's always about the chain of events, so it's impossible for example to talk about the WWII, without going back to the WWI and what took place afterwards.
So for the moment being the rest still remains to be seen as I've said, when it comes to Russia/Ukraine and the rest of the chain of events.
PS.Threat of spanking might work for the 4 year old.
From what I understand that's exactly what Putin thinks. To him there are no 'nations'. There's only civilizations. That's why he says Ukraine is 'not a real country'. Ukraine and Russia do have the same roots, on banks of the Dnieper River, but that was 1200 years ago. Ukraine now has it's own language (67% Ukrainian, 30% Russian) and it's own politics. Still Putin keeps claiming Russia and Ukraine are "one people".
It would be like if CA or TX seceded from the United States, declared themselves a new 'nation', with a new name. The current president would disapprove such action. Putin is saying the same about Ukraine. In a way its like a Russian civil war. When Putin annexed Crimea his popularity shot to 90 percent. His approval rating now is very low with the pandemic causing hardship in Russia.
The ironic thing is when you threaten to take over a country, it makes the people in that country have a stronger identity for their country.
Like the Chinese? Maybe you are thinking about another country whose military mass murders absolutely insane amounts of people while their citizens back home cheer them on.
How do you know how Russians feel? I will speak to some more Russians about it next week and get more opinions. The Russian speaking woman I spoke to last week was originally from Uzbekistan and left probably a couple of decades ago. I believe I have Russian speakers that come from Russia and Ukraine so hopefully I can get some good info.
But, if they are Russian American, they might not share the same feeling as a Russian living in Russia. Nonetheless, those in Russia could easily be brainwashed much like the US was in supporting the Iraq War on WMD pretext.
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