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Since generational references are coming into this thread, I thought I'd provide the following demographics.
The Silent Generation was born between the Great Depression and WWII, 1929 to 1945, with 1944 claiming the lowest birth rate for this generation. They are considered the parents of Generation Jones.
Baby boomers were born during the years 1946-1964. This is a huge generation, and as such, those born in the early years may be strikingly different from those born at the tail-end. Peak birth rates occurred between 1957-1961, and this smaller subset is sometimes known as Generation Jones. As an interesting note, President Obama is a member of Generation Jones.
Gen X was much smaller, occurring between 1965-1974, although some demographers extend this generation to those born through 1981. We are the generation of latch-key kids, who remember the end of the cold war, the Challenger explosion, and the time before MTV (barely). We are also notable for not having a major war during our young adulthood and therefore low rates of military service.
Gen Y (aka Millennials) followed in the early 80's. Most Gen Y members are old enough to remember Y2K, the Clinton years, and 9/11.
My kids are part of the iGeneration (Gen Z), which began in the mid-nineties. As the term implies, these kids were weaned onto the internet and are connected in ways that astonish prior generations. Some demographers claim that 9/11 spawned a a new generation called the New Silent or Homeland Generation, but I think when all is said and done, history will sweep them into Gen Z.
The point of all this is that I think we have a tendency to lump people into the Boomer Generation or Gen X without knowing exactly when those eras occurred, and therefore ascribe certain characteristics irresponsibly. Your ungrateful child may just be a Boomer or a Millennial. Likewise, the Boomer parent you declare so self-involved might be part of the Silent Generation.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 06-03-2009 at 09:12 AM..
Reason: added iGeneration info
Anafani821 got WAY off point. We arent asking for money. If you raised your kids spoiled and didn't train them to say "Thank You" thats an entirely different topic.
We are asking for INTEREST. Call occassionaly to see how the grandkids are. You find them too tiring--fine. Make a playdate. Take them to McDonalds playland or the park and let them run themselves ragged while you sit on a nice shady bench. Have them over to make cookies, draw pictures. Not all the time but how about 4 times a year? Are we really asking for so much?
Side note: Most of us went to public school, paid for our own college with student loans we're still repaying, and I dont know of anyone who got private lessons at anything. Oh wait: my grandma gave me piano lessons (back when grandmas were grandmas).
Since generational references are coming into this thread, I thought I'd provide the following demographics.
The Silent Generation was born between the Great Depression and WWII, 1929 to 1945, with 1944 claiming the lowest birth rate for this generation. They are considered the parents of Generation Jones.
Baby boomers were born during the years 1946-1964. Peak birth rates occurred during 1957-1961, and this smaller subset is sometimes known as Generation Jones. As an interesting note, President Obama is a member of Generation Jones.
Generation X was much smaller, occurring between 1965-1974, although some demographers extend this generation to those born through 1976. We are the generation of latch-key kids, who remember the end of the cold war, the space shuttle, and the time before MTV (barely). We are also notable for not having a major war during our young adulthood and therefore low rates of military service.
Generation Y (aka Millennials) followed. Most Generation Y members are old enough to remember such events as the 90's, Y2K, Bill Clinton's presidency, and 9/11.
The point of all this is that I think we have a tendency to lump people into the Boomer Generation or Generation X without knowing exactly when those eras occurred, and therefore ascribe certain characteristics irresponsibly. Your ungrateful child may just be a Boomer or a Millennial. Likewise, the Boomer parent you declare so self-involved might be part of the Silent Generation.
Interesting..Ive never heard of this Generation Jones...
I give up....good luck to you FK, and dont let this problem eat you up and ruin your life, because, you will pass this trait along to your kids, whether you think you will or not!!
I give up....good luck to you FK, and dont let this problem eat you up and ruin your life, because, you will pass this trait along to your kids, whether you think you will or not!!
I think ForeverKing is just frustrated at how this thread has gone (although he/she did play a part in it). The OP has had some people sniping at her without fully reading the original post, hence people sniping at her for complaining and being ungrateful. She has then taken that frustration and laid blanket statements about "Baby Boomers," leading to more unproductive statements from others.
If anyone cares to continue on the original post's theme, here it is: MIL complained and complained that she was missing out on her grandchild's life and badgered them to move closer to her. They did. Now she doesn't want to see her grandchild AT ALL. The parents are asking for once every couple months, and don't care if it is unsupervised or supervised.
I think ForeverKing is just frustrated at how this thread has gone (although he/she did play a part in it). The OP has had some people sniping at her without fully reading the original post, hence people sniping at her for complaining and being ungrateful. She has then taken that frustration and laid blanket statements about "Baby Boomers," leading to more unproductive statements from others.
If anyone cares to continue on the original post's theme, here it is: MIL complained and complained that she was missing out on her grandchild's life and badgered them to move closer to her. They did. Now she doesn't want to see her grandchild AT ALL. The parents are asking for once every couple months, and don't care if it is unsupervised or supervised.
Good points. We have gotten a bit side-tracked, haven't we?
For those of you who would like to continue a friendly conversation about generations and parenting styles, I started a new thread that will give us the opportunity to get to know each other a bit better. Come on over!
Whoa, whoa, whoa, anifani! I can't and won't condone the Boomer generation as universally selfish, and neither should you hurl the same generalization at Gen X.
I am at the top end of X-ers, having been born in the mid-60's, and when I look around at my peers, I see people who work 60 or more hours a week for companies that don't give a darn about loyalty to provide all those same opportunities that you provided for us. In addition, many of us also provide financial support for our parents, sometimes in the form of free airline tickets and hotel stays (so they can come see their grandchildren), sometimes in out-right monetary gifts. We shuttle our parents & grandparents to healthcare appointments and lunches with friends' and share weekly meals with them, betwixt and between driving our kids back and forth to music lessons, swimming, Scouts, and soccer. I even have friends who've added onto their houses, so elderly grandparents would have safe, comfortable places to live rather than being hauled off to the nursing home.
I understand your frustration with the tone of this thread, but you're absolutely wrong to make such sweeping statements about our generation.
Fomercalifornian . . . you are obviously in the 15% I carefully mentioned as being the exception. How did I come up w/ 15%? Cause I have looked around and listened, as well, and it seems to me less than 3 out of 10 Gen X'ers don't have this entitlement attitude. Heck, what if I am wrong and it is 60% who are responsible adults. That still leaves 40% who are aren't.
You could be my mature, very centered and caring stepson that I referred to, who is not only a hardworking man, but a topnotch dad, dedicated husband and a caring son. So the post was never meant for you.
I don't know where these care-free "me me me" Boomers are . . . I do not know ONE PERSON who fits that category. But Gen Xers are all around me who fit my description of them. Let's remember: they were on Wall Street, and in mortgage/loan offices - making the money off these toxic subprime loans - and they are the demographic who have most often bought houses they COULD NOT AFFORD (since they felt entitled to them). So this is not just me pulling this description out of thin air. Take a look around your neighborhood and your office . . . I am sure there are responsible adults there . . . but I know you are gonna see plenty of others who have been more concerned w/ living a lifestyle filled w/ status symbols (and debt) than making sure they have shown a little appreciation to their parents, who helped them get the education that allowed them entree into the corporate world.
I stand by everything I wrote, but as I did put a disclaimer in there, you should not take it personally. Of course there are mature, well-rounded Gen X'ers out there . . .I have two as neighbors.
Anafani821 got WAY off point. We arent asking for money. If you raised your kids spoiled and didn't train them to say "Thank You" thats an entirely different topic.
We are asking for INTEREST. Call occassionaly to see how the grandkids are. You find them too tiring--fine. Make a playdate. Take them to McDonalds playland or the park and let them run themselves ragged while you sit on a nice shady bench. Have them over to make cookies, draw pictures. Not all the time but how about 4 times a year? Are we really asking for so much?
Side note: Most of us went to public school, paid for our own college with student loans we're still repaying, and I dont know of anyone who got private lessons at anything. Oh wait: my grandma gave me piano lessons (back when grandmas were grandmas).
I was not off topic. You are outlining exactly what I pointed out. You have these expectations of your parents as grandparents! Why? Why do you think you have the right to decide how your parents (or inlaws) choose to interact w/ your kids?
Who told you that you have this right? I am very serious here. This is at the CORE of the matters being discussed on this thread.
Who handed you a rulebook that says: This is how Grandparents are supposed to act.
I think ForeverKing is just frustrated at how this thread has gone (although he/she did play a part in it). The OP has had some people sniping at her without fully reading the original post, hence people sniping at her for complaining and being ungrateful. She has then taken that frustration and laid blanket statements about "Baby Boomers," leading to more unproductive statements from others.
If anyone cares to continue on the original post's theme, here it is: MIL complained and complained that she was missing out on her grandchild's life and badgered them to move closer to her. They did. Now she doesn't want to see her grandchild AT ALL. The parents are asking for once every couple months, and don't care if it is unsupervised or supervised.
I think things have been right on track. I have not said anything about the OP being ungrateful, etc. I was replying to other posts. My reply to the OP was earlier on the thread. However, the things that have been discussed in subsequent posts are, indeed, germane to what the OP asked out (or stated) in her first post. The point is about EXPECTATIONS. This whole debacle is centered on expectations the adult children have about their parents' involvement w/ grandchildren.
As I stated earlier, who knows what the grandmother's reasons are for not wanting to spend time with her grandchild. My question is: why is this a problem? If adult children have parents who are not interested in babysitting (or planning time for their g/children to visit) why is this a problem? The implication is . . . that it is a problem b/c adult children feel they are owed that interaction from their parents now that they are grandparents.
So that is the core of the issue. Why do adult children feel they are owed any type of behavior from their parents?
I don't know where these care-free "me me me" Boomers are . . . I do not know ONE PERSON who fits that category. But Gen Xers are all around me who fit my description of them. Let's remember: they were on Wall Street, and in mortgage/loan offices - making the money off these toxic subprime loans - and they are the demographic who have most often bought houses they COULD NOT AFFORD (since they felt entitled to them). So this is not just me pulling this description out of thin air. Take a look around your neighborhood and your office . . . I am sure there are responsible adults there . . . but I know you are gonna see plenty of others who have been more concerned w/ living a lifestyle filled w/ status symbols (and debt) than making sure they have shown a little appreciation to their parents, who helped them get the education that allowed them entree into the corporate world.
I see entitled people in every generation, anifani.
Back to the topic, I understand the OP's sadness. Generally speaking, X-ers and the follow-on Gen Y, were raised with very career-driven parents, who worked extremely hard to provide their children with lessons and vacations and toys, but weren't around very much. I suspect these children hoped that upon retirement, their parents would look back and see what they missed, re-discovering the joy of spending time as a family in their later years. It must be very disappointing when it doesn't work out that way, even if, deep down, they know that leopards rarely change their spots. And for those grandparents whose children ignore you in the chase for bigger, better, faster, well, we reap what we sow. If we allowed material belongings to take the place of real human connections when raising our children, then we shouldn't be surprised when that continues as they grow up. We are, after all, what we were, and that's a lesson for all generations.
I'm fascinated by the way that our American society segregates itself, not only by race, but also by age. Think about the rise of adult communities, some of them as large as small cities, in the U.S. sun-belt. In these places, children are a rarity and, not surprisingly, the schools are dismal because there is no tax-base to support them. Both grandparents and their children feel the need to schedule lots of expensive activities for the occasional visit because there aren't any other children around to play a pick-up game and give the older folks a break. It's no wonder everybody's exhausted and in no hurry to do it again soon! Correspondingly, many suburbs are a sea of thirty-somethings with not a lock of silver hair to be found, so children have no idea how to behave around older people.
As a culture, we are voluntarily depriving ourselves of the joys of inter-generational communities. Over the past couple of decades, I've watched many people of a certain age in my family's circle pack up and leave for Arizona or Florida to live amongst other retirees. It's like reverse kindergarten, and there is something deeply sad about it. It's more than just grandparents refusing to provide free daycare, rather it's an entire society, young and old, that thinks it has no obligations to one another and, frankly, it makes me fear for the future. Every successful society needs both the energy of youth and the wisdom of age, and I find myself wondering how long it take for us to remember that.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 06-03-2009 at 02:24 PM..
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