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Typical scenario I've trained for.... the encounter will be at 3 yards, you'll need to draw-shoot-3 rounds, this will all happen in three seconds. So the moment you encounter a potential threat you have 3 seconds. Train-train-train.
3-3-3. Rinse lather repeat.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Shoot fast real slow and accuracy is final.
Can't do that with anything shoulder discharged.
With minimal practice, most shooters will perform better at your test with a carbine, compared to a handgun.
I agree with most of what you wrote, with just a few exceptions, in red below.
if you read the studies and work by one of america’s premier trainers and founder of lethal force institute , massed ayoob , he is in 100% agreement and teaches all the pitfalls i mentioned .
its based on what he has seen and been part of..
you can try to disagree but it isn’t the case as to how things have actually played out with long arms in home defense most of the time which is why he recommends exactly what i said.
civilian use is within feet usuallyand there is no missing with a snubby that close. it isn’t even aimed
if you read the studies and work by one of america’s premier trainers and founder of lethal force institute , massed ayoob , he is in 100% agreement and teaches all the pitfalls i mentioned .
You overstate the level at which Mas would agree with what you’ve written.
Quote:
you can try to disagree but it isn’t the case as to how things have actually played out with long arms in home defense most of the time which is why he recommends exactly what i said.
Again, you’re overstating your appeal to authority.
Mas is great. I’ve read much of what he’s published since 1980, and a lot from before that.
Some additional comments, in blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
They are extremely easy to have leveraged away when that barrel is grabbed .
If the holder of the long gun starts pulling the trigger, while pulling back on the gun and moving backwards, bad guy trying to take that gun away is going to be in for an E-ticket ride (this assumes something like an AR. A 34” duck gun? You’re probably right).
Mas taught that a long gun disarm was possible, even easy to do, based on the collective wisdom among police back in the 70’s and early 80’s. To the best of my knowledge, he no longer teaches that, let alone citing it as a reason not to use a long gun in the home. Why? Simple. If you have two hands on the gun, and a bad guy puts two hands on the gun, why would it be easy to be disarmed? Add in the multiple rounds that are going to be fired in the general direction of the bad guy, and “easy disarm” goes out the window. Don’t believe it? Try it out. Grab a friend of similar size and strength. Cut a broomstick to carbine length. Take it in your hands, at the same positions that you would if it were a gun. Have your friend grab the barrel and try to “leverage it away” from you. Not gonna happen. Then see how easy it is to point the muzzle at him.
Current Ayoob teaching RE: long gun (specifically AR-15) in home defense:
They are way over penetrating and can hit family members .
Every common self defense caliber, including .38/.357, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 12 ga buckshot, 5.56, etc. will penetrate more than 4 interior walls.
Mas agrees with me on this. But even if he didn’t, physics (and real world results) don’t lie.
Nothing beats a snubby hammerless revolver for checking out things in the house …they are very hard to grab and they always go bang with no safety.
Snubbies can be notoriously hard to shoot well and recoil can be vicious. Die to these factors, few but the most dedicated are willing to put in the necessary practice. For those that are, those downsides can be mitigated.
Mas agrees with me on this. Furthermore, Mas isn’t recommending snubbies like he used to (at least not as a primary home defense weapon). Most of his recommendations are for service semi-autos.
OP is asking about a home defense weapon, and plenty of people use them as home defense weapons.
My comment stands as both germane and accurate.
long arms are a home defense weapon but should only be used when stationary from a fixed position .
they are like artillery.
they are not for being mobile inside a house , a handgun is best for that and one that requires no safety to remember , can’t jam and is easily concealed if need be like in my situation.
brandishing is a crime if you pull a gun on someone for what turns out no reason .
so the ability to use it from within a pocket is priceless which is why ayoob highly recommends a hammer less 640 for civilians who fall under different rules then law enforcement and need to be discrete yet protected .
i think someone who goes long arm only, is asking for trouble if they are on the move .they have to many disadvantages for that in confined spaces for the untrained
but like everything else in life there are opinions all over the map and nothing is cookie cutter for all.
we have to weigh the pros and cons of our own situation, needs and training level but not only ours if there is a spouse..
is your spouse going to remember to take a safety off in a moment of sheer terror , is a spouse going to be able to retain control of a long arm in a confined space if she has to check out something . will she limp wrist a semi auto and have it jam?
so simplicity can be very very important
Last edited by mathjak107; 12-31-2023 at 02:30 AM..
long arms are a home defense weapon but should only be used when stationary from a fixed position .
they are like artillery.
they are not for being mobile inside a house , a handgun is best for that and one that requires no safety to remember , can’t jam and is easily concealed if need be like in my situation.
brandishing is a crime if you pull a gun on someone for what turns out no reason .
so the ability to use it from within a pocket is priceless which is why ayoob highly recommends a hammer less 640 for civilians who fall under different rules then law enforcement and need to be discrete yet protected .
i think someone who goes long arm only, is asking for trouble if they are on the move .they have to many disadvantages for that in confined spaces for the untrained
but like everything else in life there are opinions all over the map and nothing is cookie cutter for all.
we have to weigh the pros and cons of our own situation, needs and training level but not only ours if there is a spouse..
is your spouse going to remember to take a safety off in a moment of sheer terror , is a spouse going to be able to retain control of a long arm in a confined space if she has to check out something . will she limp wrist a semi auto and have it jam?
so simplicity can be very very important
This is why I have a 38 special at my nightstand. I want to get a 9mm revolver for my wife. In my gun cabinet which is in the bedroom I have an assortment of firearms. One of them is a 9mm carbine.
My wife also has our security system panic alarm button at her nightstand just in case.
yes , many forget a spouse may be the one to have to use these weapons and the simpler the better ..
there is a reason a snubby is called a belly gun …it is designed to be compact , easy to hide and for most civilian defense situations , especially in urban areas , up close and personal usually within just feet .
lif you can pull the trigger odds are you will hit your target who is very very close .
for self defense from a safe room behind cover with a space between you and them , a shotgun or rifle is fine.
i like the magsafe fragmentation ammo for our urban situation
It's better for each spouse to have their own rather than compromising. Also helps for each to have within easy reach.
The Ar-15 platform has exploded in popularity the last quarter century largely because it is an outstanding home defense weapon for civilians. Much easier to aim under stress and infinitely customizable to be exactly what works best for your situation. The only downside is they don't fit inside a drawer which is why pistols are still popular as well.
Barrel length: 406 mm (16 in); 350 mm (14 in); 280 mm (11 in); 305 mm (12 in) (ARX160 SF)
Manufacturer: Beretta
Action: Gas-operated rotating bolt
Cartridge: 5.56×45mm NATO; 7.62×39mm.22 Long Rifle (ARX160 22 LR)
Designed: 2008
Muzzle velocity: 920 m/s
Rate of fire: 700 rounds/min
Get the law info to own it in your country
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