How About Those Patriots? (Bourne, Douglas: surgeons, damage, good) - Massachusetts (MA) - Page 56 - City-Data Forum

OutdoorLover · 08-28-2023, 04:53 AM

The Patriots have acquired two offensive linemen just prior to the required cut-down to the 53-man roster. From the Vikings, they got offensive tackle Vederian Lowe. Lowe was 6th round draft pick in 2022 who was serving as a backup in Minnesota:
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/...we-to-patriots

From the Browns, they got offensive tackle Tyrone Wheatley Jr.. Wheatley went undrafted in 2020 and has served as a practice squad player on several teams. He was originally a tight end in college, which is interesting - TEs usually have good athleticism. Apparently he had injury troubles in college though, and in his senior year, he transferred to Morgan State where his Dad was the head coach - but his own father didn't play him in a single game there at TE, which doesn't sound promising.
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-en...n-facts-stats/

Obviously neither player has been recognized even as a solid contributor, let alone a star - they weren't highly drafted and they haven't played in any regular season games. You can't count them out entirely though - they're still young, and I think both were graded decently by PFF in pre-season play. Certainly, the Patriots offensive line needs help - it's not clear if these guys will actually be an upgrade. The Pats could possibly just be adding more scrubs to their existing crew of scrubs on the OL.

...or could there be a gem in the rough here?

lrfox · 08-28-2023, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

The Pats could possibly just be adding more scrubs to their existing crew of scrubs on the OL.

...or could there be a gem in the rough here?

I think that they're hoping to find some value in other teams' scrap heaps. They know what they've got (not much) with their guys, but maybe these other guys can be something more after a little time in the Patriots' system? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some more scrap heap signings after other teams pare down their rosters to 53.

I'm fairly surprised that they didn't invest heavily in the OL this offseason (or the past several years). I think it's clear in this thread that I'm not a big believer in Mac Jones, but I don't think you can fairly analyze his performance if he's under constant duress in the pocket. The guy is a pocket passer whose strength is accuracy on short to moderate yardage throws. He's not going to keep defenses honest with his feet/speed or keep the secondary back to prevent deep threats. In order to play to those strengths, you need to buy him time in the pocket and supplement the passing attack with a strong ground game. Both of those things require a strong OL.

And from a strictly money standpoint, he was the 15th overall pick which is major draft capital and a significant financial commitment over the course of his rookie contract. Doesn't it make sense to protect (literally) that investment? It's yet another extremely frustrating personnel approach with this team.

OutdoorLover · 08-28-2023, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrfox

I think that they're hoping to find some value in other teams' scrap heaps. They know what they've got (not much) with their guys, but maybe these other guys can be something more after a little time in the Patriots' system? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some more scrap heap signings after other teams pare down their rosters to 53.

I'm fairly surprised that they didn't invest heavily in the OL this offseason (or the past several years). I think it's clear in this thread that I'm not a big believer in Mac Jones, but I don't think you can fairly analyze his performance if he's under constant duress in the pocket. The guy is a pocket passer whose strength is accuracy on short to moderate yardage throws. He's not going to keep defenses honest with his feet/speed or keep the secondary back to prevent deep threats. In order to play to those strengths, you need to buy him time in the pocket and supplement the passing attack with a strong ground game. Both of those things require a strong OL.

And from a strictly money standpoint, he was the 15th overall pick which is major draft capital and a significant financial commitment over the course of his rookie contract. Doesn't it make sense to protect (literally) that investment? It's yet another extremely frustrating personnel approach with this team.

I totally agree. And even if you have the receivers and the quarterback to connect on deep throws, without good blocking, you don't have time for those plays to develop. Even the mighty Tom Brady took a major hit to his effectiveness when he didn't have sound blocking - you saw it most painfully in two Super Bowl losses to the NY Giants, where the (normally) high-flying offense just couldn't do much.

lrfox · 08-28-2023, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

I totally agree. And even if you have the receivers and the quarterback to connect on deep throws, without good blocking, you don't have time for those plays to develop. Even the mighty Tom Brady took a major hit to his effectiveness when he didn't have sound blocking - you saw it most painfully in two Super Bowl losses to the NY Giants, where the (normally) high-flying offense just didn't do much.

Exactly. Even if you had in-his-prime Brady and a guy like Justin Jefferson lining up on the outside, this OL would still cause problems in the passing game. But they don't have either. If you're a defense, game planning against Mac Jones and the Pats in 2024 is fairly straightforward. Play 4 defensive backs with zone or single man coverage because nobody is going to blow by you. Your LBs can be used to contain the run and cover the RB, slot guy, or TE over the middle in passing situations. And you don't need crazy scheming or added personnel with the D-Line get consistent pressure on the QB or to disrupt the run. Occasionally you can blitz a LB or from the secondary to further mess with the rhythm.

OutdoorLover · 08-30-2023, 06:53 AM

The Patriots have waived both Bailey Zappe and Malik Cunningham, so there is now no backup for Mac Jones - who has a high likelihood of being injured behind the lame offensive line - and that's not just me making that observation. They had earlier released Trace McSorley, and no great surprise there, but both Zappe and Cunningham had shown *some* good. No doubt, Belichick plans to get someone before the season starts, but as of right now, that is TBD. For Cunningham and Zappe - they could be claimed off waivers by another team and added to their roster, or if that doesn't happen, they could be added back to the Patriots practice squad. Clearly Belichick is willing to run that risk with both guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjjDJdvb-ec

lrfox · 08-30-2023, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

The Patriots have waived both Bailey Zappe and Malik Cunningham, so there is now no backup for Mac Jones - who has a high likelihood of being injured behind the lame offensive line - and that's not just me making that observation. They had earlier released Trace McSorley, and no great surprise there, but both Zappe and Cunningham had shown *some* good. No doubt, Belichick plans to get someone before the season starts, but as of right now, that is TBD. For Cunningham and Zappe - they could be claimed off waivers by another team and added to their roster, or if that doesn't happen, they could be added back to the Patriots practice squad. Clearly Belichick is willing to run that risk with both guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjjDJdvb-ec

I was surprised that all three backups were cut. At his worst, Zappe was a capable backup on, I believe, a pretty light contract. So what's the benefit of dropping him? I would wager that either Zappe or Cunningham will be back as a backup on a restructured contract; but if I actually bet on Patriots personnel moves, I'd be broke.

OutdoorLover · 08-30-2023, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrfox

I was surprised that all three backups were cut. At his worst, Zappe was a capable backup on, I believe, a pretty light contract. So what's the benefit of dropping him? I would wager that either Zappe or Cunningham will be back as a backup on a restructured contract; but if I actually bet on Patriots personnel moves, I'd be broke.

Zappe has his "true believers" in the Pats fan base - I wasn't one of those, but still, I wasn't someone thinking "This guy stinks, get rid of him". Curran and Perry were saying that Zappe has trouble functioning in the more complex Bill O'Brien offense. Even if that's true, he seems a decent backup, and he's familiar with the team, he's built some relationships, and he's not costing a lot. It's not like you have great caliber quarterbacks out there who are available and just sitting on the shelf. If they get someone else, more than likely, they'll spend a good deal more money and you'll still get questionable play in return.

As to the predictability of roster moves, Matthew Slater said "I've learned to expect the unexpected" LOL. I am hoping that both Zappe and Cunningham wind up back on the practice squad and this roll of the dice will be moot.

BostonMike7 · 08-30-2023, 10:43 AM

How many more years does Bill have left in him? I know he says he does not want to retire, but realistically how much longer can he coach?

OutdoorLover · 08-30-2023, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

How many more years does Bill have left in him? I know he says he does not want to retire, but realistically how much longer can he coach?

Belichick is 70yo. There are business and political leaders who serve well into their 70s. On the other hand, a good many corporations *require* their CEOs to retire at 65yo as a matter of company policy.

Robert Kraft doesn't speak frequently in the media, and when he does, he's usually pretty smooth. Still, it's been clear that he hasn't been happy with the team's performance since Brady left. With each year that they miss the playoffs, I think the long-held belief that Belichick is a football savant and just having him there guarantees success gets shakier and shakier and the alternative theory that Tom Brady was principally responsible for the dynasty gains traction - and if Kraft begins to believe the latter, Belichick's days could be numbered, because then he's no longer indispensable, and his head-scratching decisions can no longer just be tossed off with "Yeah, but he's Bill Belichick".

porterhouse · 08-30-2023, 12:10 PM

Both QBs have been re-signed to the practice squad. It remains to be seen if one of them is elevated as the backup once a roster spot opens presumably from other players going to the IR, or if a veteran is signed to be the back up. Patriots fans will need to find something else to clutch pearls about.