How much to help young adult kids who struggle...?

[MKTwet]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

People cripple their children by doing too much for them. Some people are confused about the job of a parent. The job of a parent is to go out of business. A young person goes to school or gets a job or both. There is no other alternative. Period. End of story.

They have to be cut off and you need an agreement about what is going to be done going forward with your ex.

This is the main problem with our society and government to blame as well. That we give our kids too much entitlement. We as parent has to be the provider but cannot use various means to discipline and educate our kids to teach them the important skills and motivation to be a productive citizen.

So many companies today are afraid to hire young people because they don't have time to them how to be productive workers and not have to fire them.

Unemployed youth is a huge problem because many of them without good job prospects will turn to gig work and that will change their career outlook and make them become lazy entitled workers.

[tamajane]

It's an individual thing. If there are mental health or addiction issues it makes it very challenging to know where to draw the line. They may never be fully independent even if they can hold a job if their judgement is poor and that might not improve regardless of how much tough love you heap on them. Sink or swim, what if they sink to the bottom and drown? Can a parent live with that.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

You are definitely enabling them, and not allowing them to become adults. What happens when you are no longer around to be the cash cow? Oh, you think they will magically grow out of their issues of irresponsibility?

I have in fact been hoping that surviving long enough to grow up a bit might make a difference. I know that I was not as mature and capable at 18-20 as I was 25+.

They could join the military

The younger one can't. Not without being off his psych meds for at least 6 months, and if he goes off his meds, he becomes totally paranoid and delusional and freaked out about everyone being out to get him, and he gets suicidal. It's not good. The older one...maybe, but he won't enlist. He saw what the Army did to his father and he wants nothing to do with it.

and I think it would greatly benefit the younger one that can't seem to keep a job, but then, mom is there when he isn't working. Doesn't it bother you that he keeps getting fired? Don't you wonder why? You do realize that continually getting fired, he won't have much to sell to an employer.

Of course it bothers me! And of course I know that!

The problem is that I cannot attach my help to behavior if I'm not willing to follow through with withdrawing it. The entire question is...am I willing to literally let my kid die, or be at risk of dying? Am I willing to follow through all the way to that extent? A person would say that pish posh they won't DIE, they'll stand up and save themselves before they would die, but damn I am not sure! Particularly when mental health and suicidal ideation is part of the picture. And the younger one has put himself into some seriously perilous situations.

But that's part of the problem, isn't it? It is EXHAUSTING to care more about someone's life than they seem to. That's kind of the core of my struggle here.

But do not think for one second that I'm over here like "oh honey it's fine you do whatever you want, I'll just keep sending you all my money." I have had a million tough talks with these kids. And they hear what I say, and take it in enough to say the right things at me that sound good...but then the follow through is not so great.

At this point they are both now having a hard time even finding work because they haven't got good job histories. But at least the younger one is working with a staff member of Job Corps to try and get placement, and he's considering going back. Also, to the best of my knowledge he has been sober for a while, and he's been forcibly parted from the problem girlfriend. He had a bit of a wake up call involving a night in jail, ya see... And he's been behaving better. But he's still got a road ahead of him trying to get his health issues under control. Mental AND physical. He's working on it.

They may need to move to a state with a lower cost of living, as CO is very expensive, and a lot of people can't make it there. Many have moved there once marijuana was legalized, and somehow didn't think about how they could afford to live and are now on the street.

I know, I was there when that happened and I complained about all of the homeless hippies who moved there with no plan other than enthusiasm about weed. Younger son has been thinking about relocating but can't until he's done some required court dates. Older son actually considered leaving the country, but has to get employed and save up some money before he can go anywhere.

Otherwise, I would find the phone numbers/locations of homeless shelters, and other social service agencies to provide your son when he asks for money.

He's aware of the services. The shelters where he's at are so awful that the backup plan he'd go to before that would be checking himself into a mental hospital for a while. It's safer.

Realize that if you let them all move in with you, and any of them don't want to move out, you'll need to go through the eviction process.

I'm aware. It's a significant reason why I really would rather not do that.

A lot of parents of drug or alcohol addicted children end up raising the grandkids. What if you decide to rent them a place, as you'll be responsible for any damage, and also could they even afford utilities, or will you be paying for them also?

People that get involved with drugs and alcohol need to dig their own way out of the hole they have put themselves into. You cannot fix them by throwing money their way. It is past time to stop enabling them for their own good. They may very well use a baby as a way to milk the cash cow, as that wouldn't be that unusual either.

Tough love!

It's actually a reason why my older son is depressed. He imagined himself raising a family with his long term fiancee by now. Instead, their relationship is on the rocks, he hasn't been able to keep/get work, just...nothing about life has worked out the way he'd planned. He had friends live with him as roommates and they took advantage of him, during a time he was working, he ended up paying their part of rent, too. He feels betrayed by everyone he's ever trusted and let down by everything in life. The last job he had, he was working at Subway and he got fired because a dude's car got stolen right in the parking lot, and the guy was freaking out, so my son who was the only one there at the store and witnessed it, locked up and went out to be there with the dude while waiting for police and to give a statement. When his boss found out he stepped out and locked the store, he fired him. See that does not seem like just a young guy being irresponsible to me. He was trying to do what seemed like the right thing at the time.

Yet still, he got fired and it looks bad and now he's not getting interviews or call backs.

Honestly it's hard for me to know which of these kids to worry about more. My younger son would be the obvious one because of his mental health issues, history with drugs and alcohol and sketchy young women and general bad behavior. But he is also very intelligent and fairly charming. He's actually able to convince employers to hire him. He just needs to do whatever needs doing so that he can KEEP a job. He says his physical health and gut pain is so bad he misses work, I'm like well, solve the problem. Eat right, go to the doctor, figure out what's going on. If he is truly sober (he says he is, and so far we don't have any evidence otherwise)...and he can get his health sorted, he's got some advantages otherwise. He's tall and good looking, which...to hear the men on this website talk, is everything. I'll say no more on that, but...you know.

My older son though... No drugs, no alcohol...but he's just not as socially savvy or mentally agile. He has this super strict idea of right and wrong and he's honest to a fault. He gets so depressed when people and the world don't live up to his expectations, and every time he tries to land a job and it doesn't work out, he takes it as a huge defeat and gets really depressed. Since he's been unemployed, he's been doing all of the cooking and cleaning at home and trying to be fully supportive of his girlfriend, giving her backrubs and foot massages and just trying to make home stress free for her...and now apparently she is cheating on him. Which he says he'd even be OK with an open relationship it's just that she doesn't want to be honest about what's going on. He still thinks that they are going to move into a different apartment together in July and I'm like dude...I think she is making other plans. I think you had better start making other plans, too. While I have definitely harped on how much he needs to get a job and made many suggestions for various possibilities, I haven't had the heart to tell him to stop being an unemployed doormat or his girl is gonna leave him but there it is.

Anyways. A bunch of stuff has happened in the months since I first posted this.

I still do plan to "off ramp" my help for my younger son and June 1 is the date I set for that. At least if he ends up homeless it won't be in the winter. He'll have some time to try and work on a plan, I guess. Maybe by the time winter comes he can migrate south to warmer climes, I don't know.

My older son...I do want things to change, but he seriously hasn't eaten up a fraction of the resources that his brother has. He never asks for more than the bare minimum that he needs and it really isn't much. I want to focus on helping him get his driver's license and a car though, which will open up a lot of options for employment. So when I get back I'm going to do that.

Originally Posted by tamajane

It's an individual thing. If there are mental health or addiction issues it makes it very challenging to know where to draw the line. They may never be fully independent even if they can hold a job if their judgement is poor and that might not improve regardless of how much tough love you heap on them. Sink or swim, what if they sink to the bottom and drown? Can a parent live with that.

Exactly.

But I have given thought to "what happens once I'm gone." I mean, I'm only 45 now but having recently been caring for a senior who has passed I've been giving a lot of thought to estate planning and all. If, over the years, my sons are not able to overcome the issues that they have and they truly cannot stand on their own two feet... Well, the older one doesn't have much of an excuse and WILL at some point be cut off. But the younger one, I have told that if he can't work because of his mental and/or physical health, he needs to get on disability. He must have a stream of income in place. And at that point, what we do is set up a special needs trust. Those actually do not disqualify people from Medicaid and other resources. I haven't given up on him yet but I have an idea of what "Plan B" might have to look like.

Thing with someone who has schizo-affective disorder, you don't really know for sure that it won't get worse. He isn't quite disabled by it now so long as he's taking the meds. But one of them recently started giving him a side effect of random severe muscle twitches. Like if he were driving a car, this could be dangerous. It may hinder his ability to work. Unfortunately that's the med he's had the best results with for his mental health. But sheesh, if it gives him something similar to full blown Parkinson's at age 22 that's a pretty high price to pay, even for knowing that your neighbors are not secretly FBI agents out to watch you or kidnap you away for secret experiments or something. And that no in fact you are not a "primordial dragon."

*sigh*