Redrawing Oregon Border (La Pine, Jefferson: living in, fencing, cost of)

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by AnythingOutdoors

Agreed. But it'll never happen. Idaho's House passed a non-binding measure to discuss the proposal:

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/lo...8-7863088743ac

Moving the boarder to get "drugs away from us" is one of the silliest things I've heard in a long time. And already it's clear that this would not be good for Idaho economically:

Right. These are some of the poorest parts of OR and CA with lots of folks on social programs and needing other forms of aid in addition to large drug problems. Some of those areas include cartels working the forests with illegal grows along with the human trafficking of migrant workers. And they are heavily armed. Whose going to fund the policing of all that? Boise? Is that what Idaho residents want to do with their tax dollars? Pay for more social programs and policing of OR and CA criminal drug activity? It is the great contradiction with a group who normally opposes increased funding of social programs (shrinking gov't spending) while at the same time with their hand out for more public assistance. I see no good outcome for ID in this nor those who think they're gaining something... beyond the political hype it creates. A howl at the moon.

Human trafficking a major problem in Southern Oregon’s illegal cannabis industry, according to officials

Boise needs to pick up the tab for eastern OR Farm Aid as well - Oregon farmers and ranchers likely to see $100 million in fresh state relief

Drought-ravaged Jefferson County farmers happy for state assistance

Derek

[AnythingOutdoors]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Right. These are some of the poorest parts of OR and CA with lots of folks on social programs and needing other forms of aid in addition to large drug problems. Some of those areas include cartels working the forests with illegal grows along with the human trafficking of migrant workers. And they are heavily armed. Whose going to fund the policing of all that? Boise? Is that what Idaho residents want to do with their tax dollars? Pay for more social programs and policing of OR and CA criminal drug activity? It is the great contradiction with a group who normally opposes increased funding of social programs (shrinking gov't spending) while at the same time with their hand out for more public assistance. I see no good outcome for ID in this nor those who think they're gaining something... beyond the political hype it creates. A howl at the moon.

Human trafficking a major problem in Southern Oregon’s illegal cannabis industry, according to officials

Boise needs to pick up the tab for eastern OR Farm Aid as well - Oregon farmers and ranchers likely to see $100 million in fresh state relief

Drought-ravaged Jefferson County farmers happy for state assistance

Derek

Keep the government out of my... uh... government benefits! Lol.

I suspect there's also a political calculus motivating this from the rural Red in Idaho. Boise is Blue and much of the rest of the Treasure Valley leans Purple, so I suspect there's an sense that adding rural conservative areas could counterbalance this at the state level. However, Idaho's constitution specifies 35 legislative districts. So we'd need to redraw existing districts to be much larger, a messy and highly politicized process, which would then have almost no effect in the legislative dynamics. Or we'd need to change the constitution to allow for more districts, which would also be very political and not guaranteed. And even if this all happened, the population of Eastern Oregon is so low that it wouldn't effectively counterbalance the more populated areas... you know, just like how Eastern Oregon has relatively little influence over current state wide policies.

If folks in OR/CA are going to waste their time on a plan that isn't going to happen, they should at least pursue a plan that gives the what they want, namely the creation of their own state Jefferson.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by AnythingOutdoors

Keep the government out of my... uh... government benefits! Lol.

If folks in OR/CA are going to waste their time on a plan that isn't going to happen, they should at least pursue a plan that gives the what they want, namely the creation of their own state of Jefferson.

Be careful what you wish for. It would wind up being one of the poorest states in the nation unable to support itself even with all the illegal grows - its primary industry. The criminal cartels would likely benefit the most. They would celebrate with many fiestas and fireworks, finally taking back a part of Mexico that was once theirs.

Derek

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by AnythingOutdoors

Keep the government out of my... uh... government benefits! Lol.

I suspect there's also a political calculus motivating this from the rural Red in Idaho. Boise is Blue and much of the rest of the Treasure Valley leans Purple, so I suspect there's an sense that adding rural conservative areas could counterbalance this at the state level. However, Idaho's constitution specifies 35 legislative districts. So we'd need to redraw existing districts to be much larger, a messy and highly politicized process, which would then have almost no effect in the legislative dynamics. Or we'd need to change the constitution to allow for more districts, which would also be very political and not guaranteed. And even if this all happened, the population of Eastern Oregon is so low that it wouldn't effectively counterbalance the more populated areas... you know, just like how Eastern Oregon has relatively little influence over current state wide policies.

If folks in OR/CA are going to waste their time on a plan that isn't going to happen, they should at least pursue a plan that gives the what they want, namely the creation of their own state Jefferson.

This is all about the inability to compromise.

Rural conservatives are in the minority on the entire west coast, WA, OR, and CA. Instead of all the culture war nonsense they should actually prioritize what issues are important and then work to come to grand bargains with urban and suburban representatives where everyone gets something of what they want.

We used to do that sort of thing routinely. The farm bill is a perfect example. It is a monstrosity. But it is rural legislators going along with urban anti-poverty food programs like school lunch programs and SNAP benefits while getting price support programs and other subsidies for agriculture. Everyone gets something out of it.

Now days you are more likely to see rural conservatives going off about a bunch of national culture war stuff rather than focusing on actual rural issues that affect them directly. And so it goes.

No state boundaries are ever going to be redrawn. You can either spend your lives going down that pointless rabbit hole or actually spend time effectively advocating for the issues that are of actual importance to rural communities.

[StealthRabbit]

A national divide was created in 2008.
It's not going anywhere without another internal (civil.) war.

Our enemies are waiting and watching, and some are probing and meddling..

My friends on the east side are well armed and have lots of ammunition and food. So much so, that it raises my concern. (For our nation)

Time will tell, but will not heal this divide.

Sobering, but true.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

This is all about the inability to compromise.

Rural conservatives are in the minority on the entire west coast, WA, OR, and CA. Instead of all the culture war nonsense they should actually prioritize what issues are important and then work to come to grand bargains with urban and suburban representatives where everyone gets something of what they want.

We used to do that sort of thing routinely. The farm bill is a perfect example. It is a monstrosity. But it is rural legislators going along with urban anti-poverty food programs like school lunch programs and SNAP benefits while getting price support programs and other subsidies for agriculture. Everyone gets something out of it.

Now days you are more likely to see rural conservatives going off about a bunch of national culture war stuff rather than focusing on actual rural issues that affect them directly. And so it goes.

No state boundaries are ever going to be redrawn. You can either spend your lives going down that pointless rabbit hole or actually spend time effectively advocating for the issues that are of actual importance to rural communities.

What you are describing is the art of Win-Win Negotiation. Unfortunately, our current politicians have lost that art on many levels which we've enjoyed in the US previously. They refuse to even try and instead prefer to operate dysfunctionally within the confines of polarized walls they've constructed. While a simpler mindsight to latch onto and tweet about, its a million times less effective and productive for their own causes. But if it gets more tweets and more people riled up then why not, right? It makes such politicians look tough on their causes not willing to work with those low-life <political derogatory terms> 'other' politicians they disdain.

From a Harvard article on the subject: "The challenge is to persuade people that it’s beneficial to negotiate even with their enemies, Mansbridge says. She cites the phenomenon of 'negotiation myopia,' which causes people to fail to see their own advantage in embarking on a negotiation and mutual agreement. One of the most harmful types of myopia, she notes, is fixed-pie bias, which leads people to presume that if one party gains in a negotiation, the other party by definition loses. Often this bias is stronger in politics than in commercial negotiations because of the competitive nature of the electoral process." Getting to win-win: Negotiation in politics

Derek

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

A national divide was created in 2008.
It's not going anywhere without another internal (civil.) war.

Our enemies are waiting and watching, and some are probing and meddling..

My friends on the east side are well armed and have lots of ammunition and food. So much so, that it raises my concern. (For our nation)

Time will tell, but will not heal this divide.

Sobering, but true.

What happened in 2008?

Oh right.

We elected a Black man to the presidency and rural White America went on an 8-year collective freak-out. I lived in semi-rural Texas during all those years. I remember it well.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

What happened in 2008?

Oh right.

We elected a Black man to the presidency and rural White America went on an 8-year collective freak-out. I lived in semi-rural Texas during all those years. I remember it well.

It was a fantastic milestone in US history. The Bush era ended along with weapons of mass delusion and the right freaked out. That's hardly a reason to forget how to negotiate successfully (amnesia?) let alone civil war or a manipulated coupe attempt after losing sorely.

Derek

[karlsch]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

What happened in 2008?

Oh right.

We elected a Black man to the presidency and rural White America went on an 8-year collective freak-out. I lived in semi-rural Texas during all those years. I remember it well.

The disrespectful and condescending "They cling to their guns and religion" speech.

[StealthRabbit]

What ever arrived, divisiveness took root. (On all sides and parties).
It's not going away, or able to be smoothed over.

The lines are draw, and growing deeper.
Violence is increasing as an expression.
Meaningful discussions are off the table.

Not unexpected, not a productive resolution.
(It's very clear how we arrived here )

Stay tuned only to what you like to hear, and you'll be just fine.