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Perhaps they find you dismissive and disrespectful and don't want to have any discussions with you because you want to trot out your big city superiority as you pontificate on how you know better and they are just hicks who should shut up and stop complaining.
How about restrictive and inappropriate hunting bans and hunting regulations.
Expensive new laws about water use and sewage.
Removing the law requiring full service gas stations, which Eastern Oregon didn't want and Western Oregon didn't apply to themselves
Closing of rest areas and snow parks
Here's a big one: Portlanders don't need studded tires so they have the law written so they must come off of vehicles at least a full month before the need for them is over for the year and they keep trying to write laws to ban them.
Forcing miles and miles of windmills with synchronized blinking red lights onto the rural communities. If Portland thinks wind generated electricity is so great, why don't they put the windmills in their own neighborhoods?
The destruction of the timber industry.
The closing of small rural schools over the protest of the people whose kids attend those schools.
Is Portland going to dictate that everyone must use electric vehicles?
Making drug use virtually legal.
Forcing rural towns to allow the homeless to sleep and poop on the sidewalks in front of the stores.
Outlawing centuries old farming practices without understand the purpose of the practice.
Passing laws which make it much more expensive to raise and water cattle, and for no purpose.
They tried to make it illegal to trap and kill gophers, but fortunately, that one didn't pass, I am assuming because it also affected gardeners who live in the cities.
Increasing fuel taxes on people who must use more fuel than the city folks.
Aggressively trying to get dams removed.
And this business of making sure the folks in the rural communities qualify for less social security than the city folks who have done the same job is particularly offensive.
Imposing unworkable landlord tenant laws on the rural areas.
How many more would you like to hear?
RE dams: Idaho Republican Representative Mike Simpson backs removal of dams on the lower Snake River to restore salmon habitat - https://simpson.house.gov/salmon/
RE wind farms: There are quite a few windmills going up in Idaho. Some of the biggest projects are being debated, but there are already many in place and in the works.
Forestry, water, social security... these are mostly Federal issues that still apply in Idaho.
And you do realize that most of these things have nothing to do with Portland politics don't you? and most of them are no different in Idaho.
What hunting bans? The ban on bear baiting and hunting cougars with dogs that was passed 30 years ago?
The new septic laws that require a modern septic tank if your sewage discharges into a waterway? That is a good and necessary change. People downstream don't want to live around your sewage. Idaho also regulates septic tanks.
Eastern Oregon legislators are the ones who begged for self serve because they had no one to work in many small town gas stations. Portlanders didn't push for that, your own legislators did. And joining Idaho will guarantee you get self serve gas anyway.
Closing rest areas and snow parks? Be willing to pay higher gas taxes I guess. Portlanders didn't close your rest area. Do you seriously think rest areas and snow parks are more abundant in Idaho? There are 100 snow parks in Oregon. Idaho has a grand total of 17 despite having more snow and mountain territory than OR. There are 23 snow parks just in NE Oregon alone so more than all of Idaho. Thank all those hundreds of thousands of western Oregonians who buy all the snow park permits that pay for your snow parks in eastern OR.
Studded tires? Try Blizzaks. They work fine. I've driven them for years in Alaska and through OR, ID, and WY in the middle of blizzards. You can leave them on year-round. And use chains on those rare instances when it is super icy. Or be willing to pay more in gas taxes (which you apparently oppose) to fix all the millions of dollars of damage from studded tires every year.
Windmills? They go where the wind is. And bring lots of money to the counties where wind farms are going. They generate tens of millions of dollars for eastern OR counties and provide jobs. Talk to your county commissioners and land owners, they are the ones who are inviting in windfarms. Or get rid of them and see your rural eastern Oregon counties go bankrupt even faster. You want to see windmills, go to a red state like Texas.
The destruction of the timber industry? Had very little to do with state politics at all. It is no different in Idaho. That is mostly Federal regulations and mechanization.
Closing of rural schools? That is a local issue. Raise your property taxes and attract more families with children. Portlanders aren't closing your rural schools. Your local school boards are. In any event, school funding is a mess in all of Oregon which is mostly the result of property tax limitations and budget cuts. So again, be willing to pay more taxes if you want lots of small rural schools.
Legalization of pot? That was supported in many parts of the state, not just the Willamette Valley. Southern Oregon heavily supported it as did Deschutes.
Homeless camping? That is due to Martin v. Boise (so came from Idaho). That case was decided in the 9th Circuit and the majority Republican Supreme Court let it stand. That had nothing to do with state politics or Portland. I promise you that western Oregonians aren't happy with homelessness either. And the ruling doesn't require eastern Oregon counties to tolerate any homelessness. It just says you can't roust people from sleeping in public spaces if they have no where else to go. So put up a homeless campground on the edge of town and problem solved. Now you can kick them back out of your downtown sidewalks.
Which farming practices in eastern OR have been outlawed? Are you talking about Measure 13? They didn't even get enough signatures to get it on the ballot.
Cattle grazing? That is mostly a Federal issue with the BLM. There are a few state rangelands down in Lake and Malheur counties. How are Portlanders affecting your right to graze cattle down there?
Fuel taxes? They pay for the rest areas that you complain are being closed. And to fix the roads damaged from your studded tires. And to plow all your rural roads in winter. Eastern Oregonians should probably pay higher fuel taxes because they have many more miles of road to maintain per capita than western Oregon. As it is, road maintenance in eastern OR is subsidized by western OR.
Which dams do you object to having removed? You realize that is a bipartisan effort don't you? Here are Idaho Republican congressmen proposing dam removal plans: https://www.sbtribes.com/idaho-state...idahos-salmon/
And finally social security? Everyone's check is based entirely on their earning history and has nothing to do with zip code. Everyone in the country has the same formula applied to determine their Social Security benefit. It is also progressive so the less you earned during your lifetime, the more credit you get for your earning history compared to higher earners. And, in any event, that has nothing at all to do with Portlanders. It is a Federal issue. And it is Republicans who want to sunset or cut Social Security, not Democrats. You are much more likely to see Social Security cut if Idaho's Senators have their way than if Oregon's Senators do. Be happy Western Oregonians elected two Democratic Senators. Your Social Security is more safe as a result.
Last edited by texasdiver; 02-10-2023 at 11:06 PM..
And you do realize that most of these things have nothing to do with Portland politics don't you? and most of them are no different in Idaho.
What hunting bans? The ban on bear baiting and hunting cougars with dogs that was passed 30 years ago?
The new septic laws that require a modern septic tank if your sewage discharges into a waterway? That is a good and necessary change. People downstream don't want to live around your sewage. Idaho also regulates septic tanks.
Eastern Oregon legislators are the ones who begged for self serve because they had no one to work in many small town gas stations. Portlanders didn't push for that, your own legislators did. And joining Idaho will guarantee you get self serve gas anyway.
Closing rest areas and snow parks? Be willing to pay higher gas taxes I guess. Portlanders didn't close your rest area. Do you seriously think rest areas and snow parks are more abundant in Idaho? There are 100 snow parks in Oregon. Idaho has a grand total of 17 despite having more snow and mountain territory than OR. There are 23 snow parks just in NE Oregon alone so more than all of Idaho. Thank all those hundreds of thousands of western Oregonians who buy all the snow park permits that pay for your snow parks in eastern OR.
Studded tires? Try Blizzaks. They work fine. I've driven them for years in Alaska and through OR, ID, and WY in the middle of blizzards. You can leave them on year-round. And use chains on those rare instances when it is super icy. Or be willing to pay more in gas taxes (which you apparently oppose) to fix all the millions of dollars of damage from studded tires every year.
Windmills? They go where the wind is. And bring lots of money to the counties where wind farms are going. They generate tens of millions of dollars for eastern OR counties and provide jobs. Talk to your county commissioners and land owners, they are the ones who are inviting in windfarms. Or get rid of them and see your rural eastern Oregon counties go bankrupt even faster. You want to see windmills, go to a red state like Texas.
The destruction of the timber industry? Had very little to do with state politics at all. It is no different in Idaho. That is mostly Federal regulations and mechanization.
Closing of rural schools? That is a local issue. Raise your property taxes and attract more families with children. Portlanders aren't closing your rural schools. Your local school boards are. In any event, school funding is a mess in all of Oregon which is mostly the result of property tax limitations and budget cuts. So again, be willing to pay more taxes if you want lots of small rural schools.
Legalization of pot? That was supported in many parts of the state, not just the Willamette Valley. Southern Oregon heavily supported it as did Deschutes.
Homeless camping? That is due to Martin v. Boise (so came from Idaho). That case was decided in the 9th Circuit and the majority Republican Supreme Court let it stand. That had nothing to do with state politics or Portland. I promise you that western Oregonians aren't happy with homelessness either. And the ruling doesn't require eastern Oregon counties to tolerate any homelessness. It just says you can't roust people from sleeping in public spaces if they have no where else to go. So put up a homeless campground on the edge of town and problem solved. Now you can kick them back out of your downtown sidewalks.
Which farming practices in eastern OR have been outlawed? Are you talking about Measure 13? They didn't even get enough signatures to get it on the ballot.
Cattle grazing? That is mostly a Federal issue with the BLM. There are a few state rangelands down in Lake and Malheur counties. How are Portlanders affecting your right to graze cattle down there?
Fuel taxes? They pay for the rest areas that you complain are being closed. And to fix the roads damaged from your studded tires. And to plow all your rural roads in winter. Eastern Oregonians should probably pay higher fuel taxes because they have many more miles of road to maintain per capita than western Oregon. As it is, road maintenance in eastern OR is subsidized by western OR.
Which dams do you object to having removed? You realize that is a bipartisan effort don't you? Here are Idaho Republican congressmen proposing dam removal plans: https://www.sbtribes.com/idaho-state...idahos-salmon/
And finally social security? Everyone's check is based entirely on their earning history and has nothing to do with zip code. Everyone in the country has the same formula applied to determine their Social Security benefit. It is also progressive so the less you earned during your lifetime, the more credit you get for your earning history compared to higher earners. And, in any event, that has nothing at all to do with Portlanders. It is a Federal issue. And it is Republicans who want to sunset or cut Social Security, not Democrats. You are much more likely to see Social Security cut if Idaho's Senators have their way than if Oregon's Senators do. Be happy Western Oregonians elected two Democratic Senators. Your Social Security is more safe as a result.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,767 posts, read 58,209,379 times
Reputation: 46265
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
And I rest my point.
the quacks will always quack, they get their paycheck weekly, and have a professionally employed spouse (double earnings) to cover any shortages that would threaten to interrupt their Latte habit.
They can pull up roots and exit their home in 24 hrs, and move on to the next great community to benefit from and then leave in shambles. "Movin-on... I got mine... xxxx-x you". Works (well) for them.
the quacks will always quack, they get their paycheck weekly, and have a professionally employed spouse (double earnings) to cover any shortages that would threaten to interrupt their Latte habit.
They can pull up roots and exit their home in 24 hrs, and move on to the next great community to benefit from and then leave in shambles. "Movin-on... I got mine... xxxx-x you". Works (well) for them.
Wait, are you offended by people drinking lattes?
Reading the grievances listed on this thread, I don't think joining Idaho (however unlikely) is going to give Eastern Oregonians what they want.
Idaho's population is a little under 2M. Of that, 800k are located in the Treasure Valley. Then there are the metro regions along the Snake River Plain: Twin Falls (100k), Burley (40k), Pocatello (90k), Idaho Falls (100k). All together, that's well over half the state population concentrated in a string of cities in southern Idaho, similar to how Oregon's population is centered around the Willamette Valley.
What are these cites like: For one, lots of Starbucks and other coffee shops. Boise and the Treasure Valley have some very hipster third wave coffee shops. You know, urban folks enjoying their lattes Lots of expensive restaurants and brew pubs and fancypants bars. The Treasure Valley is very affluent, lots of Teslas, Audis, BMWs, and other luxury vehicles. And multi-million dollar homes. The Snake River AVA Wine Region produces some great wine with many wine tasting rooms in the Sunnyslope area.
While we have a lot of agriculture, Idahoans also value the state's natural beauty and want to preserve it. In my experience, this isn't a partisan issue and Republicans and Democrats alike value being good stewards of the environment. This means things like updating farming and ranching practices to reduce runoff (even if this means less profit), and not wanting septic systems polluting our waterways and fish habitat.
In other words, even if the boarders were redrawn, you'd still have a small geographic region that controls most of the state's politics. Other than perhaps firearm regulations, none of the issues listed on this thread would likely change for residents of Eastern Oregon if Greater Idaho goes forward. Y'all may want to instead focus on the creation of the State of Jefferson.
Last edited by AnythingOutdoors; 02-11-2023 at 03:25 PM..
In other words, even if the boarders were redrawn, you'd still have a small geographic region that controls most of the state's politics. Other than perhaps firearm regulations, none of the issues listed on this thread would likely change for residents of Eastern Oregon if Greater Idaho goes forward. Y'all may want to instead focus on the creation of the State of Jefferson.
The one thing that will change is that they will all start owing more taxes for the privilege of being in Idaho. Idaho relies on sales tax and Oregon on income tax. Most of these retirees living on Social Security will end up paying a lot more in sales tax than they ever do in Oregon income tax. Because Oregon doesn't tax social security as income.
It is inhabited by people that they despise and they believe it is a substantial drain on their tax revenues.
No one despises anyone. Where do you get that? It is only a very tiny minority who are caught up in this sort of political divisiveness. It is like all the knuckleheads who always threaten to move to Canada after every election in which their preferred presidential candidate loses. In point of fact, any Oregon who prefers Idaho is actually free to move there. Which is a lot simpler solution than a pointless secession movement that will waste a lot of time and energy and go nowhere. In fact, they should probably keep going all the way to Wyoming which is even less populated and more conservative.
As for being a net drain on resources? The Oregon Coast is probably also a net drain on resources. No one wants to cut that off of the state. And so are children and old people for that matter. It isn't always about the bottom line.
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Lots of expensive restaurants and brew pubs and fancypants bars. The Treasure Valley is very affluent, lots of Teslas, Audis, BMWs, and other luxury vehicles. And multi-million dollar homes. The Snake River AVA Wine Region produces some great wine with many wine tasting rooms in the Sunnyslope area. 
