Redrawing Oregon Border (Portland, Salem, Ontario: bankrupt, gated, camping)

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by 509

Idaho is 70% public land. Oregon is 60% public land.

If you take the population of Idaho and divide it by private land acreage.....Idaho's population density is equal to that of West Virginia. Do you want to live back EAST??

I lived in Idaho in the 1970's. I won't move back...it is over populated. Too much traffic and people everywhere.

The only thing saving Idaho is that 70% in public ownership. But even there, Forest Service and BLM roads are crowded with people.

The life in Idaho these days is living in a crowded subdivision during the week and in a crowded campground on weekends.

Idaho needed a NO VACANCY sign in 1990.

This sounds like many western states including Colorado. People thought it was getting too crowded two decades ago. Now, you can't even get into Rocky Mountain National Park without a 'reservation.' Our family who lives there tried to head into the park recently to enjoy some fall colors. They waited in a long line for hours only to be told the park was full and were turned away. They raised their family there and have watched it go through all these changes.

Idaho is one of the fastest growing states in the nation, if not the fastest. So, whether they have a NO VACANCY sign our not, it is still growing and will continue growing at a rapid clip.

Idaho population projected to top 2 million by 2031. That's a lot of new people from all over including many from the PNW and CA.

"all the rest are out-of-state migrants who are predominantly moving to Boise, Idaho from California (23%), Oregon (9%), Utah (9%), and Washington (7%). California is the second-highest state. From this state, about 10,073 people moved to Boise in 2020. About 2,776 people moved from Washington and about 2,332 moved from Oregon around the same year." - https://californiamoversusa.com/reso...o-boise-idaho/

Whether it resembles what it once once on the political spectrum is still to be seen with so many new voting residents. That's the primary reasons rural Oregonians want to secede from Portland/Salem/Eugene. It's all them crazy liberals muckin' up the works. So, Idaho sounds like a conservative paradise... until the politics change at some future point.

Since everyone with any practical sense knows Oregon's boarder will never be redrawn, what is left to discuss? Moving is the only real option... or remain and complain as usual. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Derek

[oregonwoodsmoke]

Idaho doesn't want Eastern Oregon or Eastern Washington. Especially not Eastern Washington. Being gifted with Spokane would be almost as bad as being handed responsibility for Chicago. Spokane is stuffed full of crime, drugs, entitled homeless, and protestors. They fired their police and firemen and school bus drivers and shut down and bankrupted small businesses and restaurants. Just no thanks, you can keep it.

Eastern Oregon doesn't want to join Idaho because they would lose their legal marijuana and have to close down all of their profitable pot shops. Marijuana is a big earner in the small towns of Eastern Oregon and that would stop because drugs are still illegal in Idaho and the law is still enforced.

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by EasyBeezy

any effort to actually solve societal problems.

I do not know if I would classify safe drinking water as a "Societal problem." Interesting example.

Yes, I have been to several 3rd world countries where water was not potable.
I do like our water here. We can agree on that

My fear is that crazy lefties and Progressives will somehow declare that water is not available in an equitable and fair manner. Just like anything, it could become another bullet in the never ending, fake racism ammo box.

That is the type of crap I think of when I say "Societal Problems"

[pathrunner]

Originally Posted by EasyBeezy

I guess I would prefer to get along with my neighbors and those from different backgrounds, but I guess for natural born pugilists the corporate media driven status quo can be more enjoyable than the way things used to be, when people could disagree without losing their minds.

There are too many to count, but I use the provision of clean water and modern sewage as an example. Have you ever been to a country where the government does not provide clean water, and does not carry away and treat dirty water? I have. It's horrible, it's disgusting, and it's deadly. And there is no way that private industry would or could do that vital task. Government fixed the societal problem of people drinking dirty water and dumping raw sewage in the streets.

It's funny how the right pretends they hate government so much, yet, all they want to do is be in government, and when they get there, they don't dismantle anything, and they don't want to leave power. They don't close schools, they don't disband the military, they don't fire cops and firefighters, they don't fire air traffic controllers, they don't stop building and maintaining transportation systems, they don't stop managing the financial system, they don't cut entitlements like social security and Medicare, etc, etc. There's a lot of talk about the evils of government, but once they get there, they realize that government is necessary, and ours is of high quality.

This. So much this. Blah blah blah about socialism, communism, fascism, etc. etc. etc. when they don't even know the true meaning of the words, until they are blue in the face -- but where do they turn when things go south? THE GOVERNMENT. Because there IS no other place to turn. Absolutely delusional to think that private industry gives a damn about them and their problems. Private industry could not care less about problems that the government ends up solving.

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by pathrunner

This. So much this. Blah blah blah about socialism, communism, fascism, etc. etc. etc. when they don't even know the true meaning of the words, until they are blue in the face -- but where do they turn when things go south? THE GOVERNMENT. Because there IS no other place to turn. Absolutely delusional to think that private industry gives a damn about them and their problems. Private industry could not care less about problems that the government ends up solving.

What has the government solved?

[pathrunner]

What hasn't the government solved?

You ARE aware of various services provided by government offices - are you not?

Remember, this is the Portland forum. I'm not referring to the Federal government so please spare us.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

Idaho doesn't want Eastern Oregon or Eastern Washington. Especially not Eastern Washington. Being gifted with Spokane would be almost as bad as being handed responsibility for Chicago. Spokane is stuffed full of crime, drugs, entitled homeless, and protestors. They fired their police and firemen and school bus drivers and shut down and bankrupted small businesses and restaurants. Just no thanks, you can keep it.

Eastern Oregon doesn't want to join Idaho because they would lose their legal marijuana and have to close down all of their profitable pot shops. Marijuana is a big earner in the small towns of Eastern Oregon and that would stop because drugs are still illegal in Idaho and the law is still enforced.

I thought pot was a big earner throughout western Oregon. More than likely, its statewide from border to border. Isn't pot Oregon's top crop?

"Nationwide, state-legal cannabis ranks fifth among America’s most valuable crops – trailing only corn, soybeans, hay, and wheat. In five states – Alaska, Colorado, Massachusetts, Nevada, and Oregon – cannabis grown for the adult-use market is the “single most valuable crop.” https://norml.org/news/2021/11/11/re...aluable-crops/

And that just covers the legal growers. Imagine how much more there is if you include illegal neighborhood grow houses, those on national forest lands, state parks, etc...

Idaho would have a helluva lot of additional law enforcement work on their hands if they ever wanted to attempt to stem that tide. What are the chances of that?

Derek

[redguard57]

Other than the psychological effect of being in a state that "fits" eastern and southern Oregon's political preferences, what would be the advantage of Idaho taking over that territory?

From a practical perspective, I don't think Idaho would want it. Not much in those low-population areas of Oregon have anything that would justify the cost of all that extra territory Idaho would have to administer.

Other than the Ontario & Baker City areas which are close to ID, I similarly don't see the advantage for people in, say, John Day, to be governed from Boise rather than Salem.

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by pathrunner

What hasn't the government solved?

You ARE aware of various services provided by government offices - are you not?

Remember, this is the Portland forum. I'm not referring to the Federal government so please spare us.

I should clarify my question - What "societal problems" does government solve?
I do not consider basic material services such as roads, water, and sewer as societal problems.
I do like your comment keeping conversation at a local level.

To answer YOUR question - Local Gov't has not and likely cannot solve fake societal problems such as racism, global warming and equity.

When these fake issues are thrown into the mix for homelessness, drug usage and safety; the conversation turns to power/money and not solution. This is why a large segment of the population wants out of Oregon. Over last several years, these fake issues have taken over a large segment of western Oregon political theater.

[EasyBeezy]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

I do not consider basic material services such as roads, water, and sewer as societal problems.


To answer YOUR question - Local Gov't has not and likely cannot solve fake societal problems such as racism, global warming and equity.

They're societal problems if you don't have them. But Americans are blessed that our govt solved those problems, at great expense, long ago.

Spoken like someone who has never experienced racism in this country, although most people who haven't experienced racism still believe it exists. I have experienced it, as have countless others in extremely well documented ways. I've actually never heard it described as a "fake" societal problem before. That's frankly shocking and saddens me greatly that people would ignore the root cause of so much violence and suffering.