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What do you think? If you know very well they're unremorseful, would you still insist on getting your apology? Should they still be forced to apologize even though it's going to be fake by then? They aren't feeling it at all.
I think that if you grind your teeth over apologies owed you, then you wind up being held hostage by the bully for the rest of your life.
If you have to force an apology, then you aren't getting an apology at all.
Don't give them that power. Take the high road and move on. It's not worth another moment of your anxiety.
The real trick to life is being able to just not even worry about stuff you have no control over.
Spend your time helping other people get over the bullies that still torment them. It's good therapy for both of you.
I've never been bullied myself and my sympathy to those that have experienced that type of hardship. Ideally it would be great if a former bully reaches out, owns up to their past wrongs and apologizes to their victim.
What if that doesn't happen and the former bully is unremorseful (even still tries bullying you as an adult), should they be forced to apologize? Is it right for the former victim to demand an apology, knowing very well that it's going to be forced and insincere in the end?
It sounds rather controlling and an attempt to dominate the narrative; what would be the point of a ‘forced’ apology (and how would said person be in the position to bully the other as an adult).
One simply need focus on their own life and psychological health rather than concern themselves with a ‘former bully’ (and part of that is knowing their lack of happiness/psychological health is not about you). The best ‘revenge’ is an emotionally healthy life of your own despite what others say/do; bullies are simply expressing how miserable they are by looking for someone to blame/harass in order to feel better about their sorry selves.
I've never been bullied myself and my sympathy to those that have experienced that type of hardship. Ideally it would be great if a former bully reaches out, owns up to their past wrongs and apologizes to their victim.
What if that doesn't happen and the former bully is unremorseful (even still tries bullying you as an adult), should they be forced to apologize? Is it right for the former victim to demand an apology, knowing very well that it's going to be forced and insincere in the end?
*********What do you think? If you know very well they're unremorseful, would you still insist on getting your apology? Should they still be forced to apologize even though it's going to be fake by then? They aren't feeling it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria
Ooooooh! I see what OP's talking about. Searching for a free version (we NEVER give money to The Hollywood Lie Machine - EVER) of the movie, I read enough descriptions of the plot, on IMDB, to see that the movie had a horrible ending. (horrible, in that viewers were led to believe that apologies matter, and that bullies are redeemable)
In real life (in my personal opinion, based on decades of experience, and on decades-long friendships with mental health professionals, who've confided way more than they should've), bullies are sociopaths/psychopaths/narcissists. The movie is accurate, in showing that bullying/sociopathy/psychopathy/narcissism can have heritable components. Personality traits are highly heritable, although it is increasingly forbidden to acknowledge this.
First of all, Gloria, welcome back.
I am sincerely torn on this question, but lean towards the view that apologies can and should be compelled. They may do some good. I had two such experiences. One was with a bully named "Mike." I had all kinds of problems with him in Sixth-Eighth grades, 1968-71. I barely saw him in High School. During the summer of 1988 we were playing football on the beach. I had no athletic abilities in my younger years. One of the others in the game knew better. Mike was guarding me, and Dave threw the football in my direction. I caught the ball and was a good ten yards away before Mike knew what happened. Hoping for revenge he challenged me to tennis the next weekend. I beat him something like 6-1. Two summers later we were at a summer camp for adults. I was with my fiance. He requested the other room in our cabin. Compared to his bullying days, he was almost sheepish. Revenge is sweet.
The other situation involved a summer camp reunion in 1983. I had had a miserable half-summer in 1972 and the camp wound up throwing me out. There was a reunion in 1983. One of my erstwhile tormenters, Bernie, seemed a bit diffident. I finally said to him, "Bernie, you weren't responsible for the summer of 1972; my father was dying." He expressed remorse that he wasn't more constructive and I said "you were 15." I ran into one of the other bunkmates, Marc later. In 2008 his Dad died. One of the attorneys in my office was a friend and neighbor of Marc's. We had a construction re-connection.
More to Gloria's belief, however, the Charlie story, which happened during 9th Grade's final exams is a counter-example, which did not end badly for me. At the school's meteorological center Charlie threatened to "throw up all over me" if I touched him. I took him up on this rather interesting offer. Instead of puking, he pulled a bike chain out of his pocket and began to whirl it at my head. I took off, and after descending two flights of stairs and getting through a set of double-doors, I was able to hold the door against him. I was thus not hurt, but my parents were called into school and asked them to withdraw me for the next year. I didn't let it happen.
When I returned to school Charlie pulled the chair/stool out from under me. My father, who came home from work early that day due to pain from what was to turn out to be a fatal cancer recurrence called Charlie's father. His bullying came to a dead stop. At our 40th Reunion in 2015 I learned that Charlie had died. A few months later I visited a common friend, who told me Charlie had been on and of drugs, and his body gave out. Again, revenge is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by b29510
what good does an apology do ?
no serious, pay back is so much sweeter
I think it was Clockwork Orange that transitioned "apology" to "appy-pappy-logy." Apt term in some cases.
The only way “force” an unremorseful apology is at gun point, or if the harmed party got good a fighting they could beat the apology out (some still wouldn’t say it). Or you have something they want and won’t allow them to have it without an apology. None of these scenarios are good for anyone, best to live and learn and get “revenge” by living well and not giving the bully head space.
The only way “force” an unremorseful apology is at gun point, or if the harmed party got good a fighting they could beat the apology out (some still wouldn’t say it). Or you have something they want and won’t allow them to have it without an apology. None of these scenarios are good for anyone, best to live and learn and get “revenge” by living well and not giving the bully head space.
It does not hurt to let the bully know, however, that you have succeeded.
I was a handful as a kid, and I don't think I was ever forced to apologize. My mother did it for me but it was embarrassing, too. So she would do it, but the harangue she'd dish on me at home often worked. She had the knack for it. Fake apologies are pretty obvious. And any apology that ends with a "but..." are not sincere apologies.
I was a handful as a kid, and I don't think I was ever forced to apologize. My mother did it for me but it was embarrassing, too. So she would do it, but the harangue she'd dish on me at home often worked. She had the knack for it. Fake apologies are pretty obvious. And any apology that ends with a "but..." are not sincere apologies.
Or "I'm sorry that you feel that way." Another non-apology apology.
I've never been bullied myself and my sympathy to those that have experienced that type of hardship. Ideally it would be great if a former bully reaches out, owns up to their past wrongs and apologizes to their victim.
No. That's crap. I just don't ever want to hear from any former bullies again.
No. That's crap. I just don't ever want to hear from any former bullies again.
To me, it was delicious to have Michael following me around like a sheep, see Should an unremorseful bully ever be forced to apologize (link to post), at summer camp for adults. He was there as a 33 year old bachelor while I was there with my fiance, now wife of almost 33 years. I was successfully a lawyer with my senior mentor with whom I've been since 1986. He was working for his father's music publishing business. I went to his bachelor party in July 1999 for a wedding which had an extremely short half-life.
In short, being the relative winner as an adult, when it counts, rather than a bully in Middle School (then called Junior High School) years when glory in unimportant, was both the apology and the revenge.
It was also delicious beating him 6-1 in tennis (I think the other set was 6-0) that sweltering day in July 1988 was also quite sweet.
No. That's crap. I just don't ever want to hear from any former bullies again.
Agree. Out of sight. Out of mind. Moved on. Bullies are never really sorry, as most, if not all, see nothing wrong with their behavior. Forced to say they were sorry, or even encouraged to give an insincere apology, they would simply walk off and laugh about it.
It isn't a good idea to live in the past, as if you keep looking back, you can never move forward.
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