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That’s pessimism; workplace policy (and the determination as to whether it crosses into harassment and/or a legal issue) is a reality. That you write-it-off as idealistic negates options and a sense of control while negatively affecting your psychological health. If you feel you’re being bullied and it’s affecting you (at your job), you’re allowing them to control your narrative - especially if you do nothing.
Oh, plenty of bullies do very well in life. There are plenty of them in the workforce, often in positions of power. The bullies that were on Oprah's show probably didn't have amnesia but were instead gaslighting their former victims. I've been out of high school for a couple of decades, and I haven't forgotten what the people there were like.
I think you're closer to the truth than "Huh? I did that? Say it ain't so, Joe!" Bullies perhaps grow up to be more accomplished BS artists. Especially if they've had time to prepare their disclaimers for Oprah.
I agree with Gloria. A forced apology is both meaningless and will affect no change in the bully.
As I've posted before, I don't totally agree on this. Also, in some states and settings, an apology may have some legal significance, as an admission against interest if the conduct is repeated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
Frequently, the bullied person is ostracized by other students because they are afraid that they may be next. I have seen TEACHERS cower and even take the side of the bully.
I think a bully should ideally be severely punished in a way that alerts OTHER STUDENTS and TEACHERS that the BULLY is the person who should be ostracized. Not the victim.
Some ideas -
The parents of the bully should be informed that their child in unequivocally in the wrong, and that this is not about the other kid "growing a set" - it's about THEIR KID being both psychiatrically evaluated and removed from a mainstream classroom.
As I posted up-thread, there was the story about such an interaction with "Charlie" (his real name, deceased for 12 years), which happened during 9th Grade's final exams, in June 1972. This ultimately did not end badly for me, but it started with the school administration's "cowering." At the school's meteorological center Charlie threatened to "throw up all over me" if I touched him. I took him up on this rather interesting offer. Instead of puking, he pulled a bike chain out of his pocket and began to whirl it at my head. I took off, and after descending two flights of stairs and getting through a set of double-doors, I was able to hold the door against him. I was thus not hurt, but my parents were called into school and asked them to "voluntarily" and for "my good" withdraw me for the next year. I didn't let it happen, even though my mother was so inclined.
When I returned to school in September 1972 Charlie pulled the chair/stool out from under me. My father, who came home from work early that day due to pain from what was to turn out to be a fatal cancer recurrence called Charlie's father. His bullying came to a dead stop. At our 40th Reunion in 2015 I learned that Charlie had died. A few months later I visited a common friend, who told me Charlie had been on and of drugs, and his body gave out. Again, revenge is sweet.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
If the parents laugh it off, Child and Family services should be contacted. The family should be studied and a treatment plan made that is shared with the school. I'd wager that sadism and picking on others may be rewarded in some families. If that is the case, the bully should be removed.
I don't know what his parents did or did not do; clearly Charlie's problems were not solved. He wound up, alternately, working at the local BP station and on and off drugs, dying at approximately 55 years old, in or about 2012. I learned of this at a reunion, and then asked one of his friends who I was friendly with.
As I've posted before, I don't totally agree on this. Also, in some states and settings, an apology may have some legal significance, as an admission against interest if the conduct is repeated.
As I posted up-thread, there was the story about such an interaction with "Charlie" (his real name, deceased for 12 years), which happened during 9th Grade's final exams, in June 1972. This ultimately did not end badly for me, but it started with the school administration's "cowering." At the school's meteorological center Charlie threatened to "throw up all over me" if I touched him. I took him up on this rather interesting offer. Instead of puking, he pulled a bike chain out of his pocket and began to whirl it at my head. I took off, and after descending two flights of stairs and getting through a set of double-doors, I was able to hold the door against him. I was thus not hurt, but my parents were called into school and asked them to "voluntarily" and for "my good" withdraw me for the next year. I didn't let it happen, even though my mother was so inclined.
When I returned to school in September 1972 Charlie pulled the chair/stool out from under me. My father, who came home from work early that day due to pain from what was to turn out to be a fatal cancer recurrence called Charlie's father. His bullying came to a dead stop. At our 40th Reunion in 2015 I learned that Charlie had died. A few months later I visited a common friend, who told me Charlie had been on and of drugs, and his body gave out. Again, revenge is sweet.
I don't know what his parents did or did not do; clearly Charlie's problems were not solved. He wound up, alternately, working at the local BP station and on and off drugs, dying at approximately 55 years old, in or about 2012. I learned of this at a reunion, and then asked one of his friends who I was friendly with.[/quote]
CHarlie still seems to live in your head, let it go.
CHarlie still seems to live in your head, let it go.
I just have an extremely good memory for everyone, good or bad. I even remember more trivial things, such as scoring a soccer goal in fall of 1972. I was usually a fullback but the coach put me in as forward since my teammates were being given a bit of rough treatment and Coach Felsen (sp) wanted me to give it back.
I don't know what his parents did or did not do; clearly Charlie's problems were not solved. He wound up, alternately, working at the local BP station and on and off drugs, dying at approximately 55 years old, in or about 2012. I learned of this at a reunion, and then asked one of his friends who I was friendly with.
CHarlie still seems to live in your head, let it go.[/quote]
Sorry. It is not his place to evict or exorcise Charlie.
As I posted up-thread, there was the story about such an interaction with "Charlie" (his real name, deceased for 12 years), which happened during 9th Grade's final exams, in June 1972. This ultimately did not end badly for me, but it started with the school administration's "cowering." At the school's meteorological center Charlie threatened to "throw up all over me" if I touched him. I took him up on this rather interesting offer. Instead of puking, he pulled a bike chain out of his pocket and began to whirl it at my head. I took off, and after descending two flights of stairs and getting through a set of double-doors, I was able to hold the door against him. I was thus not hurt, but my parents were called into school and asked them to "voluntarily" and for "my good" withdraw me for the next year. I didn't let it happen, even though my mother was so inclined.
When I returned to school in September 1972 Charlie pulled the chair/stool out from under me. My father, who came home from work early that day due to pain from what was to turn out to be a fatal cancer recurrence called Charlie's father. His bullying came to a dead stop. At our 40th Reunion in 2015 I learned that Charlie had died. A few months later I visited a common friend, who told me Charlie had been on and of drugs, and his body gave out. Again, revenge is sweet.
I can't speak to your motivations for taking Charlie up on his offer, but I had a similar experience with a kid in high school. In one of the classes I had, the high school's soccer goalie, a guy I didn't know or hang out with personally, was seated behind me. I don't know if I was just bored or what, but I turned around, without any provocation on his part, and took a pencil off his desk for essentially no reason, I guess as some sort of lighthearted type of thing or as a tiny little prank that you do in high school that shouldn't have mattered on any grand scale. Certainly not something I would or should have remembered today. He says, "Give me my pencil!" I quietly said, "No." He then punched me as hard as he could in the back of my left shoulder. I definitely was not expecting that.
In that moment, I had only a few split seconds to make a decision on whether to cause a scene and interrupt class. Sure it hurt, but it wasn't the end of the world, so I didn't flinch to give him the satisfaction of his bullying ways, and then gave him back his pencil, without a word. There were no words spoken after that.
I think of it on occasion and what I'd do differently, but it was a Catholic high school and if I swung back or made a fuss, there was a good chance I could have been expelled. I thought about turning him into the principal's office, too, but didn't as I saw it as a one-off and it's not like that would have changed his attitude. Looking back at it, tossing the pencil across the aisle would have been my preferred response instead of giving it back to him, but then again, I technically started it and was the provocateur of an event that never should have occurred.
Later on, one of his friends committed suicide, and I tried asking him about it because it was class news, and he was just a big jerk about that, too. Sensitivity wasn't his strong suit. He would later come into my place of work after graduation when, at the time, I worked a public-facing job. I wanted to tell him off, but as an employee, I am the face of the company and all of that. I have never looked him up to see what he's up to these days as it wouldn't do any good and the incident didn't adversely affect my life. But he did get away with it.
Last edited by Free-R; 03-25-2024 at 07:38 PM..
Reason: edited; grammar: provocateur replacing prognosticator
I can't speak to your motivations for taking Charlie up on his offer, but I had a similar experience with a kid in high school. In one of the classes I had, the high school's soccer goalie, a guy I didn't know or hang out with personally, was seated behind me. I don't know if I was just bored or what, but I turned around, without any provocation on his part, and took a pencil off his desk for essentially no reason, I guess as some sort of lighthearted type of thing or as a tiny little prank that you do in high school that shouldn't have mattered on any grand scale. Certainly not something I would or should have remembered today. He says, "Give me my pencil!" I quietly said, "No." He then punched me as hard as he could in the back of my left shoulder. I definitely was not expecting that.
In that moment, I had only a few split seconds to make a decision on whether to cause a scene and interrupt class. Sure it hurt, but it wasn't the end of the world, so I didn't flinch to give him the satisfaction of his bullying ways, and then gave him back his pencil, without a word. There were no words spoken after that.
I think of it on occasion and what I'd do differently, but it was a Catholic high school and if I swung back or made a fuss, there was a good chance I could have been expelled. I thought about turning him into the principal's office, too, but didn't as I saw it as a one-off and it's not like that would have changed his attitude. Looking back at it, tossing the pencil across the aisle would have been my preferred response instead of giving it back to him, but then again, I technically started it and was the prognosticator of an event that never should have occurred.
Later on, one of his friends committed suicide, and I tried asking him about it because it was class news, and he was just a big jerk about that, too. Sensitivity wasn't his strong suit. He would later come into my place of work after graduation when, at the time, I worked a public-facing job. I wanted to tell him off, but as an employee, I am the face of the company and all of that. I have never looked him up to see what he's up to these days as it wouldn't do any good and the incident didn't adversely affect my life. But he did get away with it.
I think, on balance, you did the right thing. Charlie was trying to pick a fight by threatening to throw up on me. I think he was dead wrong, though, in turning aside your concern about the suicide of his friend. I think, at that point, his attitude should have been "what was that all about anyway" and buried the hatchet. Also upthread, I mentioned this story. I had a bully and classmate named "Mike." I had all kinds of problems with him in Sixth-Eighth grades, 1968-71, some of them my doing, most of them his just following the "group."
I barely saw him in High School. During the summer of 1988 we were playing football on the beach. I had no athletic abilities in my younger years. One of the others in the game knew better. Mike was guarding me, and Dave threw the football in my direction. I caught the ball and was a good ten yards away before Mike knew what happened. Hoping for revenge he challenged me to tennis the next weekend. I beat him something like 6-1. Two summers later we were at a summer camp for adults. I was with my fiance. He requested the other room in our cabin. Compared to his bullying days, he was almost sheepish. Revenge is sweet.But still, we came in acquaintanceship if not friendship, with a buried hatchet and not between each other's ears.
I had a close friend from 1965 until sometime in 2021 and wish he would bury the hatchet. My offense; not voting for his choice of Presidential candidates.
I think, on balance, you did the right thing. Charlie was trying to pick a fight by threatening to throw up on me. I think he was dead wrong, though, in turning aside your concern about the suicide of his friend. I think, at that point, his attitude should have been "what was that all about anyway" and buried the hatchet.
Those two incidents were the extent of our entire interaction in high school. I don't know what I was thinking even engaging with him at all as I didn't normally approach people I didn't know well outside of class group activities. I guess he just "sized me up" as bullies tend to do.
Those two incidents were the extent of our entire interaction in high school. I don't know what I was thinking even engaging with him at all as I didn't normally approach people I didn't know well outside of class group activities. I guess he just "sized me up" as bullies tend to do.
I sure did but that was pretty much foreordained. I did much better in school than him. I was never into drugs more than an occasional toke or line of cocaine or a bit of speed. I went to Cornell, a moderately prestigious college. He was heavily into drugs, and I do not know if he went into higher education. He was always struggling and died in untimely death. The only period of time that he was apparently doing better than me was during that freshman year of high school.
As far as your situation goes, your minor offense was at a very young age. Your peer’s offenses were at more mature age.
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