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More or less. I've often complained about the stupidity of the whole area's walkability. Even the train/bus station/market/stadium area... it's unbelievable just how badly that whole area is designed for anything other than driving use.
I don't know that I'd argue that most of that Harrison/Almond interchange supports pedestrian crossings, really. It's barely appropriately configured to support the vehicle traffic it's supposedly designed for - it's just a mess purporting to be a working interchange.
Agreed.
Speaking of Harrison, I left a little early today. Walking down University at about 4:30 p.m., I saw that traffic was backed all the way up from I-81 to that intersection. Unbelievable that these foolish people sit in that kind of mess when there's a perfectly adequate street grid (connecting to several other onramps to 81) to get them to points north.
ACK, I know you've written on this, but I fully believe that I-81 hinders mobility in the central city, even for motorists. Their reliance on a single-point interchange unbalances the system and leads to serious congestion in a couple spots (with virtually empty streets throughout the rest of the grid).
Speaking of Harrison, I left a little early today. Walking down University at about 4:30 p.m., I saw that traffic was backed all the way up from I-81 to that intersection. Unbelievable that these foolish people sit in that kind of mess when there's a perfectly adequate street grid (connecting to several other onramps to 81) to get them to points north.
ACK, I know you've written on this, but I fully believe that I-81 hinders mobility in the central city, even for motorists. Their reliance on a single-point interchange unbalances the system and leads to serious congestion in a couple spots (with virtually empty streets throughout the rest of the grid).
Yep. Just about every traffic choke point in the grid is an intersection with the highway - the rest of the grid is underutilized at best. At that particular interchange, the choke point of the highway interchange is what causes congestion in the grid leading to it (thinking further up the hill, down Adams, etc.).
And don't get me started on the idiotic design of the Adams intersection. I don't think they could've made it more difficult to actually pass through that intersection and stay on Almond in either direction than it is. Tear it all down and restore the grid.
As I've commented on it before, a highway should actually be useful to the areas through which it passes. 81 pretty clearly fails that test throughout the city portion.
Last edited by acknight; 04-24-2012 at 03:54 PM..
Reason: added
Travel & Leisure sites Destiny USA as morphing into the second largest mall after Mall of America.
I appreciate the P-S coverage, but comments like "These last few days and in coming months, you’re reading a lot about the project in The Post-Standard and on Syracuse.com. That’s partly because — face it — it’s the big game in town, and, for much of Upstate" to me are misleading and not helpful.
Despite it size, Destiny USA should be viewed as a component of local tourism and economic development, not the only one. I think Destiny USA should be supported (now that it is part of the local landscape), but there are other "big game" changers that are equally important to the region and should be marketed, i.e. Armory Square, Turning Stone, Connective Corridor, Creekwalk, Rosamond Gifford Zoo, etc.
It is the big game in town that will bring the tourist dollars. The other things mentioned are great for the area, but no one is going to go out of their way to visit those locations.
It is the big game in town that will bring the tourist dollars. The other things mentioned are great for the area, but no one is going to go out of their way to visit those locations.
It will depend on factors in terms of say families versus adult individuals, if another event is going on(State Fair, NCAA Basketball Regionals and even college move in/graduation) and time of year/season. A good example of this was the NCAA Basketball Tournament Regionals a couple of years ago, when fans of those teams playing here were all over Downtown, Carousel Center, the University Hill and even places like Skaneateles and Cooperstown. Canadians are known for going all over town and with their stronger dollar right now, they may play a roll in the local economy.
The State Fair and NCAA tournaments are events that happen over a short period of time. Destiny will be there 365 days a year to collect the tourist dollar.
The State Fair and NCAA tournaments are events that happen over a short period of time. Destiny will be there 365 days a year to collect the tourist dollar.
I understand that. My point is that people may come for a main reason, but will also go to other places in the area as well. So, you will get people that plan on going to DestinyUSA, but may also go to Armory Square, the University Hill, the zoo or other places in the area.
In my opinion, Congel does not want out-of-town shoppers visiting DestiNY USA to explore other attractions like Armory Square, Rosamond Gifford Zoo, the MOST, and other regional destinations because it will reduce the limited discretionary income the shoppers have to spend at his mall. He has no financial stake in these other attractions, therefore it's in Pyramid's best interest to make sure shoppers spend all or most of their money at their mall. It's unfortunate but true.
As to the Travel & Leisure article on the number of shoppers - I find such an estimate dubious at best. The tenants already announced for the mall consist strictly of outlets and a couple of restaurants that are found in all of the major cities within 350 miles of Syracuse. What's more, major outlet mall operators like Tanger and Simon Properties, have multiple centers with the same tenants within 40 miles of major Northeast and MidAtlantic cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, DC, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. The affluent consumers residing in those major markets would have no reason to travel up to 350 miles to Syracuse if they can shop at the same stores nearby. To further complicate Congel's ambitions of getting Toronto and Buffalo area shoppers to visit Carousel, Macerich (the California mall operator that defaulted on Shoppingtown Mall, recently purchased a 500,000 sf outlet mall in Niagara Falls, NY that has all of the tenants already announced at Carousel and then some).
Without major destination retailers like IKEA, Nordstrom, REI, LL Bean, Cabela's, and some unique entertainment enterprise (a go-cart track simply doesn't cut it), I don't see Carousel attracting shoppers beyond a 120 mile radius that includes Rochester, Scranton, Binghamton, Elmira, Kingston, ON, Watertown, Utica, etc. Even if Carousel were to get something along the lines of IKEA or Nordstrom, it still wouldn't attract shoppers from Philadelphia, New York City, or Boston as those metro areas have several of these stores in urban and suburban locations.
I would like to see Carousel and DestiNY propser, however I just don't see the tenants already announced extending Carousel's retail trade area.
In my opinion, Congel does not want out-of-town shoppers visiting DestiNY USA to explore other attractions like Armory Square, Rosamond Gifford Zoo, the MOST, and other regional destinations because it will reduce the limited discretionary income the shoppers have to spend at his mall. He has no financial stake in these other attractions, therefore it's in Pyramid's best interest to make sure shoppers spend all or most of their money at their mall. It's unfortunate but true.
As to the Travel & Leisure article on the number of shoppers - I find such an estimate dubious at best. The tenants already announced for the mall consist strictly of outlets and a couple of restaurants that are found in all of the major cities within 350 miles of Syracuse. What's more, major outlet mall operators like Tanger and Simon Properties, have multiple centers with the same tenants within 40 miles of major Northeast and MidAtlantic cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, DC, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. The affluent consumers residing in those major markets would have no reason to travel up to 350 miles to Syracuse if they can shop at the same stores nearby. To further complicate Congel's ambitions of getting Toronto and Buffalo area shoppers to visit Carousel, Macerich (the California mall operator that defaulted on Shoppingtown Mall, recently purchased a 500,000 sf outlet mall in Niagara Falls, NY that has all of the tenants already announced at Carousel and then some).
Without major destination retailers like IKEA, Nordstrom, REI, LL Bean, Cabela's, and some unique entertainment enterprise (a go-cart track simply doesn't cut it), I don't see Carousel attracting shoppers beyond a 120 mile radius that includes Rochester, Scranton, Binghamton, Elmira, Kingston, ON, Watertown, Utica, etc. Even if Carousel were to get something along the lines of IKEA or Nordstrom, it still wouldn't attract shoppers from Philadelphia, New York City, or Boston as those metro areas have several of these stores in urban and suburban locations.
I would like to see Carousel and DestiNY propser, however I just don't see the tenants already announced extending Carousel's retail trade area.
While I don't disagree with you at all, I think the Canadian shopper that is willing to come here for cheaper prices and supposedly more selections in terms of shopping MAY be a key in order for DESTINYUSA to do well. Development in terms of the Inner Harbor has to be done right to possibly bring other parts of the NE along.
While I don't disagree with you at all, I think the Canadian shopper that is willing to come here for cheaper prices and supposedly more selections in terms of shopping MAY be a key in order for DESTINYUSA to do well. Development in terms of the Inner Harbor has to be done right to possibly bring other parts of the NE along.
The influx of Canadians (from the more rural stretch of Ontario between the cities Kingston and Ottawa) has been good for Syracuse shopping centers, hotels and the airport. However, it would be very risky for the local tourism, hospitality and retail industry to depend so heavily on this group due to potential fluctuations between the Canadian and US dollar as well as improved, lower cost air service out of Ottawa. Late last year, Tanger, a North Carolina-based developer of outlet malls announced it would build a 350,000 outlet center in suburban Ottawa. The project will be completed in 2013. This could reduce the number of Ottawa area shoppers that travel to Syracuse, particuarly if Canadian gas prices trend higher. Tanger's expansion into Canada may result in development of 7 to 15 outlet malls in the country, according to various news reports. Due to the distance between Ottawa and Kingston, it may not be far fetched that Kingston, a city in its own right, may eventually land an outlet center in addition to the one planned near Ottawa.
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