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You keep saying the things about Allen have been repeated many times by other people, other then Graysmith. Ok. Whom? Where? And when?
Allan was looked at as a suspect, early on in the investigation and he was dismissed by everyone. Not some "amateur," but by the police investigators themselves. As I said in an earlier post: Allan is THE MOST investigated person in United States history, by the best criminal investigators (not amateur's) in the country. Not only at the time of the Zodiac killings, but for the past 40 yrs. NONE of these professional investigators believe Allan is the suspect.
You said in an earlier thread the DNA tested was "inconclusive." That is not true. It is a flat out LIE. The partial DNA profile obtained conclusively ruled out Allan. Yet, you still don't want to admit your facts are wrong.
You haven't provided one shred of evidence to back one single one of your claims, except for your "own hot air." In fact, you haven't even provided any evidence of anything, except your own personal opinion. I've provided you with links, which show the DNA testing, FBI reports, et al. Yet, you still go on this wild goose chase of what a great suspect Allan is.
This is why true investigators get upset with amateurs, such as yourself, who get locked into one theory and one theory alone. On the surface Allan is a great suspect. Dig a little? It all falls apart.
again, its called sportsmanship. when someone wants to learn something, telling them how stupid they are is not a good start. as i said in my last post, i would like civility as we are all adults here. i don't even claim to be an amateur investigator. since you can't be civil, putting you on the ignore list, as you have still refused to answer my question and are being a bit rotten.
again, this is not, as i have said, an ALA blamefest, i am trying to find out some info on the OTHER SUSPECTS. i am not claiming to know the facts, just wondering ....and again, no one has answered.....where is the evidence against ANYONE ELSE that could be called conclusive? or not circumstantial?
If ALA was the killer, dont you think he would be indicted already?
short answer, no. and if any of the other suspects were strong and had anything but circumstantial evidence against them, they would have been indicted as well.
ok, since no one is answering my question, i would like to ask YOU personally, what is your pet suspect? as in, the one that you believe has more against him than ALA. not even being smarmy here, trying to learn something. is there one that you believe is a much more likely culprit?
again, its called sportsmanship. when someone wants to learn something, telling them how stupid they are is not a good start. as i said in my last post, i would like civility as we are all adults here. i don't even claim to be an amateur investigator. since you can't be civil, putting you on the ignore list, as you have still refused to answer my question and are being a bit rotten.
again, this is not, as i have said, an ALA blamefest, i am trying to find out some info on the OTHER SUSPECTS. i am not claiming to know the facts, just wondering ....and again, no one has answered.....where is the evidence against ANYONE ELSE that could be called conclusive? or not circumstantial?
In the real world of life, no one cares about sportsmanship. Wake up and smell the coffee.
To answer your question, THERE IS NO SUSPECT in the killings. NO viable suspect has ever surfaced. None. Zip. Zero. Notta. Just like Jack the Ripper. None. Notta. Zip. Zero. Zilch. There is NO viable suspect in the zodiac killings. Every single suspect which has been brought forward has been shot down in flames.
Now, don't say you don't "claim" to know the facts. You did. You said the DNA evidence was inconclusive to Allen. Which is a total lie. If you are going to BS, BS; but don't lie. You have made many claims in your past posts which are false and untrue. You still hold Graysmith, a LIAR, out to be the end all of know alls for the Zodiac.
Here is the issue to a person such as you: This horrible crime. SOMONE HAD TO DO IT. Uh, he (Allen) fits the bill. For my psyche I'll blame him and all is good. Yet, when the facts prove he isn't the killer, my psyche falls apart and doesn't know what to do. So, I'll fight tooth and nail to prove I was correct; even though I am wrong.
Allen. A great surface suspect. However, there is not one shred of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, to prove he did it. Unless you are Graysmith, you, or the countless other ignorant fools out there.
short answer, no. and if any of the other suspects were strong and had anything but circumstantial evidence against them, they would have been indicted as well.
ok, since no one is answering my question, i would like to ask YOU personally, what is your pet suspect? as in, the one that you believe has more against him than ALA. not even being smarmy here, trying to learn something. is there one that you believe is a much more likely culprit?
Theres hundreds if not thousands of articles and posts on message boards discussing this case, im not an expert on this case, if you want more info, make google your friend.
Theres hundreds if not thousands of articles and posts on message boards discussing this case, im not an expert on this case, if you want more info, make google your friend.
probably the most useless thread i have ever started. i am quite adept at google. i get that. i hear that you can find things on there. i know this. i was hoping for personal opinions re. suspects, as usually citydata is the best source for personal opinions. instead this thread has turned into a bit of a mudfest where people are gleefully pointing out how stupid someone is for not thinking like they do. i expect more from citydata and the people on it, having been on here for years myself and dealt with some very erudite and well mannered people. this has not been my experience with this thread. requesting it be closed, as none of you have given me anything approaching a cogent argument. bad show, mates.
Zodiac killer, intriguing case~updates new book by detective
For crime buffs, here is a good article and new updates from a former S.F. detective.
Many avenues in this case were unexplored or even ignored at the time.
Robert Graysmith book was interesting but claimed Arthur Leigh Allen as culprit, apparently there were others who were not investigated.
I have read several of the transcripts and true crime books. Just an update on new information here and any new thoughts, ideas welcome.
The house occupied by Arthur Leigh Allen was sold a few years ago, it sparked new investigations into possible theories on the Zodiac. Zodiac Killer Facts: NEWS & UPDATES
TV ALERT: The case of the Zodiac killer and other California crime stories will be featured on the Travel Channel series "Hidden City" hosted by writer Marcus Sakey. The Hidden City webpage offers this synopsis of the broadcast: "Marcus examines the infamous murder of Harvey Milk, rides along with the San Jose police to uncover the fear and greed which created the Vigilance Committee during the gold rush, and gets inside the mind of the Zodiac killer."
Check your local listings for the Pacific, Central and Eastern times zones, or, consult the Travel Channel schedule.
I know Allen was still a "good" suspect even after he failed the polygraph and no DNA connected to him on envelopes, hand writing didn't match, but other things did, like time of crimes he was in those vicinities and a few other ties in. You do wonder how the culprit could allude capture w/ all of the murders/forensic left behind. There had to be some compelling physical evidence at one of the crime scenes?
Thanks for posting. I know a forum owner whho lives in SF area and he has a few former detectives who contribute very interesting info on that forum.
It is intriguing bcs the Presidio and psychiatric military hospital (at that time period) were also in that general region.
It makes sense that Allen, with his history would be a suspect. He owned trailers/RV's and was arrested for child abuse/pedophilia.
However some profilers and detectives who actually worked on the case surmised that Allen was not clever enough, he had a military history though.
Richard Gaikowski was editor of counter-culture newspaper in SF at that time, and also a suspect. Physically, he fit the descriptions. But a former staff member and writer of the paper (it was a bohemian anti-war type newsletter) said he was most likely an agent provocatuer, and not really interested in war protests at that time.
It was a very interesting case. DNA tests were not present in those days, and polygraphs are very subjective, depending on the psychological profile and interviewer.
I will look for more updates and am very interested from any posts from people familiar with the 1970's and San Francisco counter culture at that time. The Presidio and its military studies and practices are also of interest in that time period.
Graysmith's book on Zodiac is a good read, and I recommend it highly
But, muchinformation has been left out. There were also some some unsolved murders in Lake Tahoe area near 'Paradice Hotel" spelling as used by Zodiac corresponce.
www.Zodiackillerforum.com
has some great info. on those unsolved murders, Donna Lass included, who disappered from Tahoe. She was an hotel staff nurse in S. Lake Tahoe, and her disappearance was left unresolved.
Bruce Davis, the Manson group member was accused of being in the area also, but nothing was ever investigated.
The haunting reason this case was unsolved- they concentrated on red herrings/wrong suspects.
Everyone including law enforcement needs to look into this new suspect Barry or Barrett Wysling, cause if anyone has ideas of what to look for in a Zodiac Suspect and they include a person who; liked the Mikado, was in the Military, Educated in Criminology, had a teaching degree, 2 p.o. boxes, was a Oakland police officer, favorite color/obsessed blue, birth sign Aquarius, married 4 times, was considered by many around him to be creepy, meticulous, was a control freak, demanded loyalty, had a very monotone voice, walked with a bit of a strange gait, has hand writing the same, looks like the composite sketch, had weapons with human blood on them hidden in the walls of his house, was stationed in Riverside, and x-wife from riverside, etc. PLEASE ANYONE SHOW ME A SUSPECT THAT HAS ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE TO THIS GUY, don't worry I'll wait, there is no other suspect that fits the profile 1/2 of this suspect, go to youtube search "Zodiac Killer interviewed by reporter hidden from public" and note EVERYTHING this suspect says, This is your Killer folks, anyone who really knows this case won't argue that fact! thanks, A Retired Officer of the Law
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Zodiac killer, intriguing case~updates new book by detective
. I know a forum owner whho lives in SF area and he has a few former detectives who contribute very interesting info on that forum.
