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You’re the one that tries to get a “new start” every few months with yet another alias.
Because your posts drip with anti-US sentiment, insufferable attempts to promote your religious fanaticism for density, and a frequent erroneous application of math, the posts make you readily identifiable.
You’re the one that tries to get a “new start” every few months with yet another alias.
Because your posts drip with anti-US sentiment, insufferable attempts to promote your religious fanaticism for density, and a frequent erroneous application of math, the posts make you readily identifiable.
Have you written your manifesto yet?
It's funny how you can not ignore me. I am living RENT FREE in your head.
Yes, the US is not Europe, but is Europe unrealistic or science fiction? Europe exists. I am living here I know that people and families live this way without any of the horror stories you read from Americans about how that's not possible.
Europe is unrealistic in most of America, and vice versa. The differences are profound, even among comparably affluent countries. Variety is good. The experiment cited in this thread is… interesting. For variety’s sake, yes, more such experiments are welcome. But let’s not delude ourselves into belief that such experiments are universally worthwhile or appealing.
Even in much of Europe, outside of the urban cores of places, cars are eminently useful. People avoid cars because of the expense, and not from feeling of environmental responsibility, or dislike of driving. If I visit Germany on business, I rent a car, because I enjoy driving there, and my employer is footing the bill. If I visit for leisure, I take trains, to save money. Let’s not conflate what’s economical, with what’s personally preferred, if money isn’t a consideration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
Consider getting to work. The residents won't be working in the retail shops. Those shops won't have high enough wages to support residents living in those apartments. The residents will have to get to work elsewhere.
That is the fundamental problem! It's not a self-contained village, where the only reason to leave the village is for young men to join the army, or for young women to marry into the neighboring village. Residents in those tony compact apartments may work in an office-park 20 miles away... with no public transport of any sort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
As much as you wish to denigrate "culture", etc. in the U.S., the policies here are designed to reward longer term ownership and investment, not transient "renter" type conduct.
American society is culturally rooted in individual ownership of the land. European society is culturally rooted in most of the land belonging to the nobility, the crown or the church. As both societies urbanize, Americans retain their penchant for thinking of themselves as landowners, while Europeans have no qualms about thinking of some other concentration of power as the landowner. In the 21st century we no longer have nobles or peasants (my handle excepted), but the sentiment remains, and is reflected in deliberate national policy choices.
Europe is unrealistic in most of America, and vice versa. The differences are profound, even among comparably affluent countries. Variety is good. The experiment cited in this thread is… interesting. For variety’s sake, yes, more such experiments are welcome. But let’s not delude ourselves into belief that such experiments are universally worthwhile or appealing.
Even in much of Europe, outside of the urban cores of places, cars are eminently useful. People avoid cars because of the expense, and not from feeling of environmental responsibility, or dislike of driving. If I visit Germany on business, I rent a car, because I enjoy driving there, and my employer is footing the bill. If I visit for leisure, I take trains, to save money. Let’s not conflate what’s economical, with what’s personally preferred, if money isn’t a consideration.
That is the fundamental problem! It's not a self-contained village, where the only reason to leave the village is for young men to join the army, or for young women to marry into the neighboring village. Residents in those tony compact apartments may work in an office-park 20 miles away... with no public transport of any sort.
American society is culturally rooted in individual ownership of the land. European society is culturally rooted in most of the land belonging to the nobility, the crown or the church. As both societies urbanize, Americans retain their penchant for thinking of themselves as landowners, while Europeans have no qualms about thinking of some other concentration of power as the landowner. In the 21st century we no longer have nobles or peasants (my handle excepted), but the sentiment remains, and is reflected in deliberate national policy choices.
Not everyone enjoys driving. Some people prefer public transport. I like being driven around by a train or bus. I can do other things while sitting on public transport. You can not work on your computer and/or enjoy the view as much while driving. And AI isn't even close to automated driving yet. Last time I visited family I took my bicycle on a train. So when I arrived at the train station in the city where I wanted to go to, I cycled the rest of the journey to my destination. And while I was on the train I enjoyed the view and typed CD posts on my computer.
I have done the journey by car before. It is annoying, because you can't drive as fast as the high speed train can go and you need to focus all the time, which is tiresome and of course it is also causing physical pain after a while. So you need to make breaks which cost time and the journey gets even longer. Meanwhile I could eat a Sandwich while on the train and I could take a quick walk on board.
Owning a car may be a nice thing to have for some trips, but it can not replace walking, cycling and public transportation. All these forms of transportation have up and downsides and I enjoy having the choice here in Germany.
And I am pretty sure that most Europeans view land not as an exclusive thing of a few, but rather as a public good these days. If you have been to Germany you may already know, that Germany has a diverse infrastructure to discover the land outside the cities.
One of my hobbies is leisure cycling and here is some of the footage I recorded exploring the land around me.
America's car culture is not the only way to live. For many, it is not the most desireable way to live.
America evolved around the car, ever since General Motors had governments rip out all of their street car tracks. I can't imagine the cost or time it would take to restore walkability back to even 1% of America where cars dominate today.
It is going to be a very slow process. It would help if there were widespread community regions that were PLANNED from the start for pedestrian/transit access. Pedestrians should feel safe, welcome and accommodated and getting to goods and services needs to be quick and convenient, whether on foot or in transit.
All that said, the government should not push it or mandate it. Encourage it yes, but not mandate it. Tons of Americans like car-centric life. They should not be forced to change.
Offer planned car-free communities, and if they are superior for most people, they will flourish
No, but the majority of Americans are at least tolerably OK with driving, while I'd imagine that many tens of millions do outright enjoy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stadtmensch
...you can't drive as fast as the high speed train can go and you need to focus all the time, which is tiresome and of course it is also causing physical pain after a while.
Well, for example from Berlin (picked up a Mietwagen in Tegel, a few years ago) to Braunschweig, I did actually beat the train. Probably averaged 180 kmh... and I mean average (not max).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stadtmensch
...Owning a car may be a nice thing to have for some trips, but it can not replace walking, cycling and public transportation. All these forms of transportation have up and downsides and I enjoy having the choice here in Germany.
To truly have comparable choices in America, it would take many trillions of dollars of infrastructure investment, not to mention a sea-change in cultural paradigm. We are more likely to get autonomous flying taxis, than something like Deutsche Bahn. Cycling is more of a hobby for elegant people who wish to sculpt their abdominal muscles, than for commuters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stadtmensch
And I am pretty sure that most Europeans view land not as an exclusive thing of a few, but rather as a public good these days.
Well, yes. What was in the 19th century the purview of the aristocracy, has broadly come to be regarded now as a public good. Such attitude has not developed in America. At all. If anything, there is less of a civic spirit now, than generations ago.
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Originally Posted by engineman
How do the elderly get around?
That's a very good question! Often we hear that elderly people are loath to drive, or don't feel safe driving. In some cases, yes. But I can't imagine how an elderly person would feel safer on the subway, than inside of a modern car. Or how it's easier to walk a half-mile or a mile, than to drive. Or how it would be possible to go by bicycle. I'm not (yet) elderly, but with backaches and other ailments, it's easier to drive a car with manual transmission in Los Angeles traffic, than it is, to ride a bicycle, or to walk through the warrens and byways leading to what passes for our public transit system. Not to mention safer.
The alternative to driving is - for our German friends, the oddly named - "uber".
It is currently 5:48pm in Temp, Arizona, and the current temperature is 110F or 43C. It looks like the daytime temps during the next 10 days will all be above 105F with some days predicted to be 116F (47C). No need for a car here.
Anybody want to go for a bike ride or a walk to go get dinner tonight? It looks like the temperatures will drop to 91F or 33C by 6am tomorrow morning. Maybe we should wait until then. It is a dry heat.
I like this idea very much. You get free rides on the metro, and discounts with Lyft, and there's car sharing. So you can still access a car without the expense of owning one.
As far as it being hot in the summer, Minneapolis is supposedly very bike-friendly even though they have snow on the ground for much of the year. In Tempe you don't want to get in a car that's been baking in 115-degree heat, so a bicycle would be much more comfortable as long as you hydrate sufficiently. I think I'd rather bike in Tempe in the summer than during a Minneapolis (or Chicago, Boston, Denver, etc.) snowstorm.
I hope this is successful and is replicated in more cities in the U.S.
Looking at the design of this community though, I would imagine the white exterior walls would create a lot of glare, although it reminds me of the whitewashed walls of cities in southern Spain and Greece. The buildings are spaced very close together, perhaps in an effort to maximize shade in outdoor areas.
I lived car-free in Boston, where it was more of a liability to own a car, since parking was scarce and vandalism was high. People would get into fights over parking spaces. In the winter, car-owners had to scrape ice of the windows and dig out from snow banks left by snowplows. No thanks. Transit there works very well so I seldom felt a need for a car. Sometimes you would slip and fall on the ice walking places, with or without a car. Many people already live car-free in US cities and there is no space to build "communities" like this. It's a novelty in a highly car-dependent area like the Phoenix metro area.
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