Feeling the Market (Seattle, Spokane, Vancouver: real estate, to rent, crime)

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

I agree. Cons outweigh the Pros for sure. To me, #1 reason I do not want a townhouse/condo is lack of privacy compared to an SFR, you have at least one other party attached to your home with at least one wall.

I don't need to nor do I want to be out in the middle of nowhere but a standalone home that has adequate distance from the nearest house is very important. Like a min. 8-yard cushion around the property.

I am thinking if I find the "almost" perfect home that lacks a garage, as long as there is enough space on my property, I could build one myself provided I wouldn't need any permits, etc. to do so.
Logically, I shouldn't need to, to do anything on my own property but I have heard some weird stories with even expansion/additions to houses requiring permits. I suppose there has to be some regulations but for reasonable upgrades and additions, like building a new shed or garage, I shouldn't have to?

not gonna happen in WA or OR...

I can't paint or re-roof my house without federal approval (or even add or change an outdoor light), but even those in County controlled regions cannot add accessory buildings without significant approval and permit hassle, and a lot of added fees, approvals, surveys, mitigated costs. +/- Add a toilet to accessory dwelling? Now you are talking real pain.

DIY, is considerable harder to get approved and inspected.

MT is the closest you can get to WA with a few private property rights, very few.

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

not gonna happen in WA or OR...

I can't paint or re-roof my house without federal approval (or even add or change an outdoor light), but even those in County controlled regions cannot add accessory buildings without significant approval and permit hassle, and a lot of added fees, approvals, surveys, mitigated costs. +/- Add a toilet to accessory dwelling? Now you are talking real pain.

DIY, is considerable harder to get approved and inspected.

MT is the closest you can get to WA with a few private property rights, very few.

I wonder if it became that ridiculous during the last 2 decades or so because even in Orange County where I'd think things would be much more controlled and costly, one of my friends and ex-roomies built a nice size shed in his not-so-big backyard with a bathroom/shower so a person or a couple could even live in it.

Perhaps he did it without permits?

I honestly didn't expect such restrictions in other States. What is the reason behind the requirements, fees and hassle for such upgrades or constructions?

Were you serious about Federal approval to re-paint or change an outside light? This is your property and your house so why and how could they restrict or control a property owner from making such changes?
I guess there might be a reason but I fail to think of any reasonable, rational ones.

Which bring me to another concern/question; when someone buys a fixer-upper, is there more than just the speculated cost of repairs/upgrades like getting permits, fees, etc. of such regulations only apply to the outside of the dwelling?

Either way, based on your input, I am still very much disappointed and annoyed.
So much for "Land of the free", huh?

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

I wonder if it became that ridiculous during the last 2 decades or so because even in Orange County where I'd think things would be much more controlled and costly, one of my friends and ex-roomies built a nice size shed in his not-so-big backyard with a bathroom/shower so a person or a couple could even live in it.

Perhaps he did it without permits?

I honestly didn't expect such restrictions in other States. What is the reason behind the requirements, fees and hassle for such upgrades or constructions?

Were you serious about Federal approval to re-paint or change an outside light? This is your property and your house so why and how could they restrict or control a property owner from making such changes?
I guess there might be a reason but I fail to think of any reasonable, rational ones.

Which bring me to another concern/question; when someone buys a fixer-upper, is there more than just the speculated cost of repairs/upgrades like getting permits, fees, etc. of such regulations only apply to the outside of the dwelling?

Either way, based on your input, I am still very much disappointed and annoyed.
So much for "Land of the free", huh?

Stealth lives in the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area which has a lot of special restrictions on development. The rest of Southwest Washington isn't like that at all. None of the restrictions he writes about apply to the 99% of the population that lives in regular towns like Vancouver, Battle Ground, Camas, etc.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

....
I am thinking if I find the "almost" perfect home that lacks a garage, as long as there is enough space on my property, I could build one myself provided I wouldn't need any permits, etc. to do so.
Logically, I shouldn't need to, to do anything on my own property but I have heard some weird stories with even expansion/additions to houses requiring permits. I suppose there has to be some regulations but for reasonable upgrades and additions, like building a new shed or garage, I shouldn't have to?

This is not legal in any counties I am aware of in WA (adding a non-ag structure without a permit). Sometimes under 400sf is allowed, but not in urban counties, And never with a bath or toilet, without a sanitation permit.

Counties use satellite imagery and drones to validate your covered SF, including concrete slabs / sidewalks / decks which are tax assessed per sf.

Some areas will allow garage or accessory building IF PERMITTED properly, but if you think you can build whatever you want on your own property, you are in for a huge disappointment in CA, OR, or WA. I recently bought a metal Lathe from a person in Urban WA who had added a permanent foundation under a 10x 20 shed. He was significantly fined (>$10,000) and had to remove the shed and jackhammer out the foundation, all via wheel barrow through his existing home. (Narrow lot, no alley).

Private property rights do not include building whatever you want. Add an HOA and suffer many more restrictions.

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

Stealth lives in the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area which has a lot of special restrictions on development. The rest of Southwest Washington isn't like that at all. None of the restrictions he writes about apply to the 99% of the population that lives in regular towns like Vancouver, Battle Ground, Camas, etc.

Uh, I didn't know that. Now it makes more sense!

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

This is not legal in any counties I am aware of in WA (adding a non-ag structure without a permit). Sometimes under 400sf is allowed, but not in urban counties, And never with a bath or toilet, without a sanitation permit.

Counties use satellite imagery and drones to validate your covered SF, including concrete slabs / sidewalks / decks which are tax assessed per sf.

Some areas will allow garage or accessory building IF PERMITTED properly, but if you think you can build whatever you want on your own property, you are in for a huge disappointment in CA, OR, or WA. I recently bought a metal Lathe from a person in Urban WA who had added a permanent foundation under a 10x 20 shed. He was significantly fined (>$10,000) and had to remove the shed and jackhammer out the foundation, all via wheel barrow through his existing home. (Narrow lot, no alley).

Private property rights do not include building whatever you want. Add an HOA and suffer many more restrictions.

I know there has to be some regulation for extreme stuff and keep thing reasonable but I do not understand city/county/state having a ton of regulations in place to make changes to your own house on your own property. Is there a rational reasoning behind it or is it more like the bylaws they pass in CA where every single one aims to bring in revenue for the city/county/state?

What is the point in owning your own property if you cannot even make additions? And, yeah, no to HOA!
I am adamantly against buying a home where it has HOA, Mello Roos, etc.

So, what do people do if they bought a house without a garage but have plenty of empty free space on their property? Have to get a professional to do it or the permits required regardless? I am OK with obtaining permits just as long as the they don't make it a pain or it the fees are too dang high.


Btw, if I ever decided to build a home, I wouldn't do it myself. I'd have a contractor/builder do the job. I couldn't actually do it myself.

[MtnSurfer]

You have to realize that just because you move out of California, you can't move to another state and do your own thing without some oversight. Every state has building codes and laws of some kind. So, if the idea was to just build whatever you want, when you feel like it, its not going to happen 'legally' in most places. That's not to say you couldn't buy a piece of land and build a home. That also doesn't mean you couldn't buy a fixer upper and redo the home to your liking following local construction codes. Just don't expect the 'skies the limit' simply because you bought a piece of land. You still live in a country, state and county with laws. Freedom doesn't mean freedom from those laws but rather the freedom to build or remodel within them.

Secondly, different areas within the state have fewer restrictions than others when it comes to building codes. So, of course, you'll hear these extreme examples. But that doesn't mean people aren't building their own homes or making major modification all of the time in WA and OR. The answer is, it depends where you buy and all the associated zoning laws and building codes that go along with it. Try to do those things in an urban core or area known for other higher building restrictions and its obviously not going to work out well. Move to a less restrictive area and further outside in the county and everything changes.

Lastly, don't take everything you hear on CD or any other forum as the gospel truth until you do your own research first. Many times folks like to express their strong biases with extreme examples of life from their perspective which does not necessarily represent an entire state nor all of the options within that state. So, you must do your own homework, bottom line. Then, take everything you read with a big grain of salt realizing some have an ax to grind as they plan to move on and out.

The same applies to the CA forum and any other state for that matter. Read some of the threads on the CA and you'll quickly see the bias along with the same posters who post those same threads - many who either want to leave or are already doing so. Basically, the whole state is viewed through that lens even if others in other parts have an entirely different experience.

Derek

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

Uh, I didn't know that. Now it makes more sense!



I know there has to be some regulation for extreme stuff and keep thing reasonable but I do not understand city/county/state having a ton of regulations in place to make changes to your own house on your own property. Is there a rational reasoning behind it or is it more like the bylaws they pass in CA where every single one aims to bring in revenue for the city/county/state?

What is the point in owning your own property if you cannot even make additions? And, yeah, no to HOA!
I am adamantly against buying a home where it has HOA, Mello Roos, etc.

So, what do people do if they bought a house without a garage but have plenty of empty free space on their property? Have to get a professional to do it or the permits required regardless? I am OK with obtaining permits just as long as the they don't make it a pain or it the fees are too dang high.


Btw, if I ever decided to build a home, I wouldn't do it myself. I'd have a contractor/builder do the job. I couldn't actually do it myself.

It's not that you can't do things with your own property. It's that you have to follow the correct process of permits, inspections, zoning laws, etc. Garages may be a bit tricky in a lot of suburban/urban areas because if the house has no garage then you will be putting in a lot of new concrete for a driveway and expanding the footprint of the property. The local zoning code and or specific lot may or may not allow that.

Honestly, if you want a home in the suburbs with a garage, buy one with a garage. The great majority of homes, even old ones, are going to have some sort of garage. It's really only going to be the very old homes in very old neighborhoods that are going to lack garages.

[StealthRabbit]

or... it could be that those of us who have spent weeks of our lives in the planning and permitting offices and at Land Use hearings in 7 SWWA counties might have a bit of a clue... or not.

#1) OP requires a garage or shop, potentially for doing commercial enterprise (paid to work on other people's cars or motorcycles.) About the time the UPS truck delivers 5x in a week, or there is a test ride or customers showing up... the zoning officials will be your next visitors.

This is not gonna cut it in WA, OR, or CA so for anyone want to do this... look elsewhere for your relocation.

I am thinking if I find the "almost" perfect home that lacks a garage, as long as there is enough space on my property, I could build one myself provided I wouldn't need any permits, etc. to do so.
Logically, I shouldn't need to, to do anything on my own property but I have heard some weird stories with even expansion/additions to houses requiring permits.

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

It's not that you can't do things with your own property. It's that you have to follow the correct process of permits, inspections, zoning laws, etc. Garages may be a bit tricky in a lot of suburban/urban areas because if the house has no garage then you will be putting in a lot of new concrete for a driveway and expanding the footprint of the property. The local zoning code and or specific lot may or may not allow that.

Honestly, if you want a home in the suburbs with a garage, buy one with a garage. The great majority of homes, even old ones, are going to have some sort of garage. It's really only going to be the very old homes in very old neighborhoods that are going to lack garages.

All in all, I think that is what I was going for. Building a garage sounds like it will be a hassle but more so costly. Since I have a tight budget, I will have to suck it up and look for an A-OK dwelling that has a garage, even if it is a single car. I realized I can't be too picky and my move is not in the immediate future plus I will definitely be renting for a little while to see the area and assess my options. In short, too soon to worry about all this.

I was just asking some questions while running ideas in my head to see how things were out there.

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

or... it could be that those of us who have spent weeks of our lives in the planning and permitting offices and at Land Use hearings in 7 SWWA counties might have a bit of a clue... or not.

#1) OP requires a garage or shop, potentially for doing commercial enterprise (paid to work on other people's cars or motorcycles.) About the time the UPS truck delivers 5x in a week, or there is a test ride or customers showing up... the zoning officials will be your next visitors.

This is not gonna cut it in WA, OR, or CA so for anyone want to do this... look elsewhere for your relocation.

Not sure whom you were responding to with the initial part but I realize some of my expectations were ungrounded and unrealistic but one can wish, right?

As far as the garage situation goes, I think there might have been a misunderstanding, I don't want to work on anyone's motorcycle. I could go into business repairing computers and laptops from my garage/home but that is an idea at this point. The garage will be to restore/repair/customize my own bikes.
Definitely will not be servicing anyone else's vehicles. Once restored, I could sell the motorcycles but that is it. So, no commercial repair shop or garage type of operation.

Anyhow, thanks for all the feedback, I do appreciate it!

TL

[TurcoLoco]

Since the forum is seemingly slow, can I throw a curveball question to spice things up?

Ever since having seen Benny & Joon many years back and really like the way the area looked in the movie (granted it was probably the better time of the year), I have done a bit of research on Spokane in the last year, too.

Knowing my situation, how do you guys feel it compares to Vancouver area?
Would it be a decent alternative or not? Pros and Cons?

I know Winters are colder in Spokane, probably due to drier air? Some say Winters are long but not sure what that means exactly? I am actually OK with cold Winters/snow if it means less rain/wet days throughout the year.

Not sure if the jobs pay same or worse than Vancouver area. House prices seemed a bit cheaper in Spokane, or am I wrong?

Again, just gathering info. I take it all with a grain of salt so please share your opinions, especially if you been to or lived in Spokane (I have never been there).

Thank you!