Northern Belt Line? (Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile: home, transfer, tax)

[raj kapoor]

Originally Posted by Tourian

I think most of the money to be used to build it can ONLY be spent on a road like this. The Feds won't let you use the funds on something like 280 for instance or Grants Mill Road.

You are quite right about this. And the delay in starting was not about the rumblings people mention. We had to sell about eighteen acres to the state and then they had to come back for more because they decided to go six lane with the ability to go up to eight lanes between I-59 and I-65. (they learned a lesson on 459 when they had to come right back and widen it , where people said there was no need for a road; we've been through this before when many here were not even born)

There has been utility work through our area for the past eight months and of course final surveying. One can't really see any of this because the land they bought from us in is the middle of 430 acres.

I am always a little amused at how everyone wants to use the resources for this road to build schools, redo old bridges, widen roads that will never work because they are at grade, build libraries, gardens , canals, send more people to the moon. Anything but simply finish the interstate system as it was intended. And the idea of building at grade is totally ignoring the whole premise of the INTERSTATE SYSTEM. There is a standard that must be met coast to coast. This in not just about Birmingham, but the cities and states that connect through Birmingham, just as we use them to transit to other places. Grade level is what got us into the mess with 280. Go watch the traffic on 459 anytime and imagine all those trucks and through traffic running through Birmingham with no control over some nut pulling onto the road going twenty. Lots of death is what you would have.

There is no doubt the prosperity on 459 will be mirrored on 422 as there is no way we can keep growing in one or two directions. Go to Memphis and see how bad that works. When you grow in one direction at least half the metro ends up so far from downtown that going there for much of anything is just no longer an option. I mentioned Memphis , I can point out St. Louis too. Most large river cities show how devastating it is to grow in one direction. An here in Birmingham of all places. Have you ever noticed how beautiful the rolling land is northwest, north, and northeast of the city. Once you go over Oak Mountain there is nothing to the south as beautiful.

Hopefully infrastructure can be completed and make this city whole and balanced. But we are known for being the worst NIMBYs. And just remember, you are already paying the state and federal road/gasoline taxes, if you want to stop it, they will be glad to spend it elsewhere, but it will be spent on the interstate system, and you pay at every pump.

BTW, we did not fight them and our land is not suitable for commercial development, so we are not going to make a gold mine. I just know that it is time for balanced growth in the metro area. (and by the way the vast majority of people and the cities being affected are in full support. (and their taxes paid for the 459 I drive everyday, so I support them)

raj

[sleepless in Bham]

The Northern Beltline will likely cause more of something that we shouldn't want, unchecked suburban sprawl. For all the talk of not wanting to another Atlanta, that is what we would be pushing towards with this projects.


It's not even a complete loop on the eastern side. If billions of dollars are gonna be spent at least make a complete circle and get of the idiotic 422 designation.

[cpg35223]

Personally, I think they should take the estimated $4.7 billion (Yeah, right) it would take to build the northern belt line and apply that money to a pretty good mass transit system, as in rapid rail from Chelsea, Bessemer, Clay Chalkville, and Leeds. Talk about something that would actually make sense.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by sleepless in Bham

The Northern Beltline will likely cause more of something that we shouldn't want, unchecked suburban sprawl. For all the talk of not wanting to another Atlanta, that is what we would be pushing towards with this projects.


It's not even a complete loop on the eastern side. If billions of dollars are gonna be spent at least make a complete circle and get of the idiotic 422 designation.

That almost sounds like the warnings the New Yorkers gave us in the "major city" thread. As soon as you push for downtown development, look out its going to be like Manhatten down there or whatever they said. A complete loop isn't going to turn us into Atlanta. It'll complete something that should have been done 25 years ago. Anything less then a full on interstate would be half assing it IMO and unsafe like Raj said. 459 didn't turn us into Atlanta so there's no reason to believe 422 will. They have to use a new number unfortunately because it doesn't match both ends. We would have had to resign 459 any way because the whole north south thing wouldn't work on the north side.

[sleepless in Bham]

If it has to be an interstate, then ALDOT should at least look into making the beltline into a tolled highway. I'm not trying to be a NIMBY, but I don't see this as a high priority issue.

Naming it 422 doesn't make any sense because it doesn't terminate at I-22. Either keep it I-459 or maybe 420 or 620.

[raj kapoor]

Originally Posted by sleepless in Bham

If it has to be an interstate, then ALDOT should at least look into making the beltline into a tolled highway. I'm not trying to be a NIMBY, but I don't see this as a high priority issue.

Naming it 422 doesn't make any sense because it doesn't terminate at I-22. Either keep it I-459 or maybe 420 or 620.

Both of which are taken. There is a lot of thought in these processes, right down to the numbering system.

raj

[Tourian]

Besides could you imagine the theft rate of the I-420 signs?

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by raj kapoor

Have you ever noticed how beautiful the rolling land is northwest, north, and northeast of the city. Once you go over Oak Mountain there is nothing to the south as beautiful.

That's precisely an argument for not building it.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

That's precisely an argument for not building it.

Well, the terrain is precisely the reason why I-22 has taken so long to complete the last few miles. Hills and deep ravines make building an interstate highway very difficult.

[bhamguy]

I am completely against the Northern Beltline ...especially right now.There are so many other projects that the money could be used for:

-Modernizing I -65 with more lanes(smooth lanes), HOV lanes, and sound barriers.
-Complete solution to 280.
-Lowering I-20/59 downtown, and resurfacing it as well.
-Resurfacing I-459
-Completing Lakeshore to I-459 extension.

Etc...