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When is it going to be cost effective to have solar panels on electric cars? That way you don't even need to plug it in, you can just let your car sit outside and it'll automatically recharge. It can recharge while you're driving too.
Even if it doesn't recharge as fast as you use the power to drive the car, it could extend the trip mileage before your battery dies.
The only vehicle that I have seen that can make the case that solar panels on the vehicle makes sense is Aptera - they claim "Capable of up to 40 miles of solar powered driving per day". The key is efficiency, with up to 1000 miles range estimated.
Solar panels on most EVs would add about as much range to an EV as a minute of charging - not worth the cost.
The only vehicle that I have seen that can make the case that solar panels on the vehicle makes sense is Aptera - they claim "Capable of up to 40 miles of solar powered driving per day". The key is efficiency, with up to 1000 miles range estimated.
Solar panels on most EVs would add about as much range to an EV as a minute of charging - not worth the cost.
That's $1,100 for something that adds negligible weight or maybe reduces weight if in lieu of a panoramic roof and adds maybe 0.5 kWh a day on average in a fairly sunny environment. If you're charging at an expensive $0.30 per kWh at home, then it's going to take about 20 years to "make" the money back and 40 years if at a more reasonable $0.15 cents an hour, so on the price part it's not worth it.
Where it's a bit more helpful is if you're not able to charge at home and also don't drive very much over the course of the week so that 0.5 kWh a day at say 4 miles per kWh reduces the frequency of going to recharge and/or if you're worried about drain while parked from running things like dashboard cams while parked for a long period of time or the thermal management system keeping the battery at optimal temperature. It also potentially reduces the duty cycles of the battery by a couple cycles every year depending on how much of that power went directly to various systems rather than going through the battery.
Is it great? Eh, not really. Though I think if you get anything even close to the trends over the past decade for this decade, then getting the power generated to be more like 1 kWh on average a day, the price more like $550 additional, and the vehicle doing 5 miles per kWh are pretty reasonable levels of improvement and would maybe be worth it to a lot more people.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-05-2021 at 03:07 PM..
That's $1,100 for something that adds negligible weight or maybe reduces weight if in lieu of a panoramic roof and adds maybe 0.5 kWh a day on average in a fairly sunny environment. If you're charging at an expensive $0.30 per kWh at home, then it's going to take about 20 years to "make" the money back and 40 years if at a more reasonable $0.15 cents an hour, so on the price part it's not worth it.
Where it's a bit more helpful is if you're not able to charge at home and also don't drive very much over the course of the week so that 0.5 kWh a day at say 4 miles per kWh reduces the frequency of going to recharge and/or if you're worried about drain while parked from running things like dashboard cams while parked for a long period of time or the thermal management system keeping the battery at optimal temperature. It also potentially reduces the duty cycles of the battery by a couple cycles every year depending on how much of that power went directly to various systems rather than going through the battery.
Is it great? Eh, not really. Though I think if you get anything even close to the trends over the past decade for this decade, then getting the power generated to be more like 1 kWh on average a day, the price more like $550 additional, and the vehicle doing 5 miles per kWh are pretty reasonable levels of improvement and would maybe be worth it to a lot more people.
Or think of it another way--for the average driver going a bit over 30 miles a day, that last example yields essentially one "free" day for every six days. That works out to effectively a ~15% fuel efficiency increase. Assuming that a third of that solar power never gets routed through the battery, then you get essentially 5% less "wear" on the battery and a bit of protection against vampire drain and starting with a low or dead battery if you end up not touching the car for a while. How much is that worth to someone?
That's $1,100 for something that adds negligible weight or maybe reduces weight if in lieu of a panoramic roof and adds maybe 0.5 kWh a day on average in a fairly sunny environment. If you're charging at an expensive $0.30 per kWh at home, then it's going to take about 20 years to "make" the money back and 40 years if at a more reasonable $0.15 cents an hour, so on the price part it's not worth it.
Where it's a bit more helpful is if you're not able to charge at home and also don't drive very much over the course of the week so that 0.5 kWh a day at say 4 miles per kWh reduces the frequency of going to recharge and/or if you're worried about drain while parked from running things like dashboard cams while parked for a long period of time or the thermal management system keeping the battery at optimal temperature. It also potentially reduces the duty cycles of the battery by a couple cycles every year depending on how much of that power went directly to various systems rather than going through the battery.
Is it great? Eh, not really. Though I think if you get anything even close to the trends over the past decade for this decade, then getting the power generated to be more like 1 kWh on average a day, the price more like $550 additional, and the vehicle doing 5 miles per kWh are pretty reasonable levels of improvement and would maybe be worth it to a lot more people.
I wasn't saying it was economical as a matter of fact I said - "Solar panels on most EVs would add about as much range to an EV as a minute of charging - not worth the cost."
But lets just fix some of your data, the 0.5 kwhr/day is really too small - the surface are looks to be about 2 square meters - that would be enough area for approx 350 watt panel - that would give about 1 Kwhr in 3 hrs or about 2-3 Kwhr in a day. 2-3 Kw would get about the same charge as less than a minute of 250Kw charger.
That 2-3 kwhr would likely cost between $0.24 (@0.08/kw) and $1 (@0.33/kw). The Aptera is projected to get as much as 10mi/kwhr so 20-30 mile potential added range. On a model 3 that gets about 4mi/kwhr, that would get 8-12 miles added. If normally pay $0.33/kwhr - that $1/day saved in electricity could recoup the $1K cost in 1000 days or about 3 years if used/charged every day. In my case, I pay $0.044/kwhr so savings would be about $0.14/day or over 20 years to pay off if $1K cost.
I wasn't saying it was economical as a matter of fact I said - "Solar panels on most EVs would add about as much range to an EV as a minute of charging - not worth the cost."
But lets just fix some of your data, the 0.5 kwhr/day is really too small - the surface are looks to be about 2 square meters - that would be enough area for approx 350 watt panel - that would give about 1 Kwhr in 3 hrs or about 2-3 Kwhr in a day. 2-3 Kw would get about the same charge as less than a minute of 250Kw charger.
That 2-3 kwhr would likely cost between $0.24 (@0.08/kw) and $1 (@0.33/kw). The Aptera is projected to get as much as 10mi/kwhr so 20-30 mile potential added range. On a model 3 that gets about 4mi/kwhr, that would get 8-12 miles added. If normally pay $0.33/kwhr - that $1/day saved in electricity could recoup the $1K cost in 1000 days or about 3 years if used/charged every day. In my case, I pay $0.044/kwhr so savings would be about $0.14/day or over 20 years to pay off if $1K cost.
Not disagreeing with your math, but I was using the Sonata's solar panels as a baseline which has a max output of 204 watts and I was trying to go by what a conservative average would probably be that's somewhat informed by what Hyundai states the average is rather than max possible output though of courses this varies by local conditions. I used the Sonata because it's a vehicle that's already in production and with known specs such as cost and weight.
I will add that it's not just on the electricity cost basis that solar panels nets some advantage (which can work out a lot faster if the average cost per kWh improves, namely with greater efficiency and lower cost of the option), but also for extending the time needed between charging sessions for people who don't have a regular daily place to charge and the aforementioned slightly less wear on the EV battery. If it does end up working out to 2-3 kWh a day on average for a $550 solar option, then that option becomes extremely appealing with a 5 miles per kWh EV as then you're talking about getting a "free" day for every 2 or 3 days for the average driver. That's a massive improvement of time needed between charging sessions for someone who does not have a regular daily place to charge.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-06-2021 at 08:46 AM..
I wasn't saying it was economical as a matter of fact I said - "Solar panels on most EVs would add about as much range to an EV as a minute of charging - not worth the cost."
But lets just fix some of your data, the 0.5 kwhr/day is really too small - the surface are looks to be about 2 square meters - that would be enough area for approx 350 watt panel - that would give about 1 Kwhr in 3 hrs or about 2-3 Kwhr in a day. 2-3 Kw would get about the same charge as less than a minute of 250Kw charger.
That 2-3 kwhr would likely cost between $0.24 (@0.08/kw) and $1 (@0.33/kw). The Aptera is projected to get as much as 10mi/kwhr so 20-30 mile potential added range. On a model 3 that gets about 4mi/kwhr, that would get 8-12 miles added. If normally pay $0.33/kwhr - that $1/day saved in electricity could recoup the $1K cost in 1000 days or about 3 years if used/charged every day. In my case, I pay $0.044/kwhr so savings would be about $0.14/day or over 20 years to pay off if $1K cost.
Does that even take into account the added weight of the solar panels and thus reduced range per kilowatt?
Does that even take into account the added weight of the solar panels and thus reduced range per kilowatt?
Yea, it does for the Aptera though keep in mind that the Aptera hasn't actually been released and they aren't planning to release any until next year. It also does for the released and in production Sonata unit I was using as the benchmark which added approximately 65 pounds compared to a no panel metal roof, but is actually *lighter* than the panoramic roof option. It in essence adds fairly negligible weight overall.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-09-2021 at 04:07 PM..
Does that even take into account the added weight of the solar panels and thus reduced range per kilowatt?
I was going to say essentially the same as Oy, the weight of solar panels is negligible - I would not expect them to have any impact on range due to weight of the solar collectors, the actual collector is very thin and pretty light. The approximate weight for a house roof collector is 45 pounds (20 kg) for 2 Meters - on a car, with solar replacing a metal roof panel or sun roof, it is probably a complete wash, might even be lighter.
^ Didn't realize that Xpeng was also going with solar cells. A ~$25K USD base price for a roughly Corolla-sized four door sedan and with fairly small solar panels that are integrated next to the sunroof (sharing space with the sunroof) and supposedly generating about 1 kWh a day according to the reviewer which seems like a lot for relatively few solar cells and in a pretty northern part of China in fall. Quirky as all getup though with a custom inflatable mattress, a projector screen, a mini-fridge, and a fragrance emitter.
Here's a look at the Sono Sion which has been in works of sorts since 2012 and is projected to do customer deliveries in 2023 (though to the EU--no projected date for the US and there is a possibility it never comes here since it's projected to be small, fairly affordable, and not a crossover, SUV, or pickup). Projected average 70 miles or range added per week by the solar panels in not so sunny Germany, max 150 miles added per range from the panels, able to charge other devices including other vehicles at up to 11 kW, uses a 54kWh LFP battery that gets 190 miles on battery only (WLTP), 75 kW max fast charging, motor outputs 160 hp and like all EVs delivers a lot of torque from the get-go, price is about $25K USD without tax or incentives.
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