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Burlington VT is basically like having Brooklyn 75 minutes from Montreal
I'm confused by this. Care to elaborate?
By the way, I can 100% assure you that MUCH more Montrealers travel back and forth to Brooklyn (or any parts of NYC) fairly regularly than to and from Burlington. The whole of Vermont was only ever talked about by avid skiers who got tired of the Laurentians. To anyone else, it might as well not have existed.
I can't quite say why, but to Montreal, "Les Cantons de L'Est" is considered FAR, while a place like Napierville is "down the road." Basically, everything East of the Richelieu River was "way out there."
By the way, I can 100% assure you that MUCH more Montrealers travel back and forth to Brooklyn (or any parts of NYC) fairly regularly than to and from Burlington. The whole of Vermont was only ever talked about by avid skiers who got tired of the Laurentians. To anyone else, it might as well not have existed.
I can't quite say why, but to Montreal, "Les Cantons de L'Est" is considered FAR, while a place like Napierville is "down the road." Basically, everything East of the Richelieu River was "way out there."
Vermont’s Center of gravity is pretty much on the Canadian border. Its relationship with Quebec is very important. Burlington/South Burlington is like ~11-12% of Vermont’s population. Which is about the proportion Brooklyn or Queens is to NYS. Throw in like Essex Junction, Winooski etc and almost 1/2 of Vermonters live within an hour of Quebec. That’s not true if NYS.
The per capita rate of border crossings into VT is ~15x higher than to NYS. Just counting the big ones (Vermont has many more small crossings since it’s entirely a land border)
So your personal circle of friends is not representative of reality. For a free reasons but mainly Mintrealers are not most Quebecois.
Vermont voters are the Silent Plurality of this thread. Full disclosure, I voted for Vermont. But I'm open to being convinced otherwise. Some decent arguments have been made herein, but I've yet to be convinced that I should change my mind to NY or ME
Vermont’s Center of gravity is pretty much on the Canadian border. Its relationship with Quebec is very important. Burlington/South Burlington is like ~11-12% of Vermont’s population. Which is about the proportion Brooklyn or Queens is to NYS. Throw in like Essex Junction, Winooski etc and almost 1/2 of Vermonters live within an hour of Quebec. That’s not true if NYS.
The per capita rate of border crossings into VT is ~15x higher than to NYS. Just counting the big ones (Vermont has many more small crossings since it’s entirely a land border)
So your personal circle of friends is not representative of reality. For a free reasons but mainly Mintrealers are not most Quebecois.
Your first paragraph does a great job of summarizing why I voted for VT. Math.
This is neither here nor there, but Montreal is my favorite city I've ever visited
Vermont’s Center of gravity is pretty much on the Canadian border. Its relationship with Quebec is very important. Burlington/South Burlington is like ~11-12% of Vermont’s population. Which is about the proportion Brooklyn or Queens is to NYS. Throw in like Essex Junction, Winooski etc and almost 1/2 of Vermonters live within an hour of Quebec. That’s not true if NYS.
So your personal circle of friends is not representative of reality. For a free reasons but mainly Mintrealers are not most Quebecois.
Again, Montreal is half of the entire province. And Montreal has a STRONG relationship with NY State along the length of the I-87 corridor. There is not much relationship between Montreal and Vermont at all, let alone Maine.
It has nothing to do with my "circle of friends." I can assure you that anyone from the area will echo my statements... As has been done already in this thread.
It's not until you get out to the far flung outer edges of suburbs that you start to see that... And to most of the 4.5 million living there, there is "nothing past Brossard." Oh, there's that one place called "St-Jean" somewhere out there. You might end up there one day if your kid plays hockey.
Ask a random person out of the ~4.5 million people who live there (again, half of the entire province) if they know how to get to Vermont. You'll likely get blank stares.
You know there isn't even a direct expressway route that goes from Montreal to Vermont, right? Seriously, There isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
The per capita rate of border crossings into VT is ~15x higher than to NYS. Just counting the big ones (Vermont has many more small crossings since it’s entirely a land border)
Per Capita of... Vermonters vs New Yorkers? Of course it will. Hardly anyone even lives in Vermont, and it's a tiny state, both physically and in population compared to New York.
What about the per capita of Quebecois crossing the border? I highly doubt there is a higher per capita rate of crossing from Quebecers going into Vermont than NY.
Last edited by Arcenal813; 01-16-2024 at 10:25 AM..
60% of Madawaska residents speak French it basically *is* Quebec
And once again for Maine having that many people code to the border is like if Plattsburgh had ~110,000 people.
Burlington VT is basically like having Brooklyn 75 minutes from Montreal
The states just so obviously revolve around Quebec way more than New York State it’s not even a question worth entertaining. We’ve established that about 2x the population of Vermont uses Vermont Border crossings and they’re all into Quebec while for NYS only about 1/10th of the NYS population use NYS-Quebec border crossings.
I see what you are saying, but Madawaska is small and that is even in relation to Maine's population. So, to inflate population isn't really necessary.
I think revolve around and connection aren't necessarily the same, as if that was the case, there would be more marketing that "revolves around" VT being connected to Quebec's major city, where about half the province's population lives. Let alone that NY is closer to the second biggest metro area associated with the province(Ottawa-Gatineau). You would have to cross into Ontario first for that second metro area, but it is still a short drive away from NY.
What VT may have is a higher proportion of its population with access/close proximity to Quebec, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the state with the biggest connection. I only say that due to the economic(companies and transportation) and multiple cultural connections with not only the French Canadian cultural aspect, but the Native American, Jewish, Italian, Haitian, etc. cultural connections. Maine and VT don't offer those other cultural connections like NY does, which has been stated by others on here as well.
I see what you are saying, but Madawaska is small and that is even in relation to Maine's population. So, to inflate population isn't really necessary.
I think revolve around and connection aren't necessarily the same, as if that was the case, there would be more marketing that "revolves around" VT being connected to Quebec's major city, where about half the province's population lives. Let alone that NY is closer to the second biggest metro area associated with the province(Ottawa-Gatineau). You would have to cross into Ontario first for that second metro area, but it is still a short drive away from NY.
What VT may have is a higher proportion of its population with access/close proximity to Quebec, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the state with the biggest connection. I only say that due to the economic(companies and transportation) and multiple cultural connections with not only the French Canadian cultural aspect, but the Native American, Jewish, Italian, Haitian, etc. cultural connections. Maine and VT don't offer those other cultural connections like NY does, which has been stated by others on here as well.
Vermont crossings have literally 15x more Quebec border crossings per capita. It’s not even remotely close.
For the vast majority of New Yorkers Quebec is basically Ohio
Vermont crossings have literally 15x more Quebec border crossings per capita. It’s not even remotely close.
That could just mean proximity to nearby communities on either side of the border. So, there may be connections in those particular communities, but when looking at where the bulk of people in Quebec live, they are telling you and other factors indicate that they are more connected to NY. Again, this is about connection, not necessarily proximity, per se. However, economic, transportation and multiple cultural indicators(including both forms of immigration entry from the US into Quebec) point towards NY.
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