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ok let's run with that..what happened on or about march 2020?
Other than a few people staying home for a short time (regardless of those who made it permanent) did anything change? OTHER than the hoarders? What made the 'preppers' go off the rails and clean us out of TP, bleach, pasta and canned beans? There was no shortage of resource until they made one.
Which brings us to the larger question never considered, (well at least no one outside of us) its not so much a question of "where ill I get my next roll of TP or can of Bush's" but rather, "where are the damn things made, AND from WHAT?"
Given todays ACTUAL education levels, the general populace is worse off than the pilgrims. Sure, they can use a cell phone but xbox and HBO didnt teach you simple machines. And you can argue, the temperament is not there to re-do 400 years of US technology learning. Make friends with country folk REAL fast...
So to sum up, the education needed (note: not re-education) is not as much for the product usage or procurement, but rather production. production is sustainable. unless you want only 8 years then blink out.
This is america...sustainable food and water should not be a problem unless you choose to make it one.
When I first read this thread, I thought about March 2020 too.
In February 2020, I was stocked and ready. My sister who laughed at me! By the end of March, she was panicked. There was nothing I could do in February to shake her awake for March.
So yes, most people know less than the Puritans. At least, Puritans understood the concept of self-control.
We live in a country where self-control is alien, foreign concept. To me, that is the point of contention.
Whether it's rationing food or water, it involves a mindset/thoughtfulness which has been rejected in the USA.
It's going too much against the grain of the American mind. Much of the country purchases stuff it can't afford on credit cards it can't pay off - just like our federal debt.
Continuing RetireinPA's thought - Most people know little to nothing about production or farming. If it isn't on the supermarket shelf, most people are lost. The long term problem is how to restart a country without knowledge of technology/manufacturing.
Just as an example:
After the Roman Empire fell, the systems which fix roads, deliver mail/communications without a functioning post office, how to protect against hoards of barbarians, medical knowledge, etc were gone.
Even something simple as the technology of toilets was lost after the Fall of the Rome Empire.
[quote]The Romans provided generous water supplies for their cities; all of the supply systems worked by gravity and many of them used aqueducts and syphons. Although most people had to carry their water from public fountains, there was limited distribution of water to public buildings, some private residences and apartment houses; private and semiprivate baths and latrines became fairly common. The wastewater drainage system was limited, with no treatment of sewage, which was simply discharged into a nearby river. But even these fairly modest applications of public sanitation far exceeded those of previous cultures and would not be equaled until the 19th century.https://www.britannica.com/technolog...n-achievements
Some areas will survive better than others. New York City will be toast, but upstate and west New York could adapt. But after the eight years (cited by RetireinPA), it will be a different world.
OTOH, my "fly by the seat of his pants", no planning, non-prepper husband believes our ruling class wants a serf state. The purposeful failures in education and the lost of factory/manufacturing and its knowledge is by design.
OP has asked a legitimate question. There really are people who just can not get it and
...
For someone like that who just can't get it, you either need to send them away, or else lock everything up so they can't access it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
Thanks, this example helped me to see what the OP was talking about.
Yes, many thanks to OWS, for the practical (and apparently, true life) example.
Yes, I can. And I know what to do with it when it is all put together and running. However, it won't run without fuel and I can't make diesel fuel and I can't run the tractor on french fry oil, because there won't be any french fry oil and I can't make huge volumes of vegetable oil. The Deere is just a great big paper weight, or maybe a makeshift chicken coop. It doesn't matter who knows how to run it when it won't run.
Glad I know how to make diesel from animal fats and oilseed.
But my tractor runs on gas, so it's a good thing I know how to make alcohol too.
Glad I know how to make diesel from animal fats and oilseed.
But my tractor runs on gas, so it's a good thing I know how to make alcohol too.
You have a bio diesel set up or just know how to do it? I looked at it when I had a diesel truck and it was not feasible to do it, and certainly not now. There is a huge market for fried oil and fats.
And I can make alcohol too, but my old Farmalls would fry on corn squeezings. I'd have more money in rebuilding scored blocks and new rings than what its worth.
You have a bio diesel set up or just know how to do it? I looked at it when I had a diesel truck and it was not feasible to do it, and certainly not now. There is a huge market for fried oil and fats.
And I can make alcohol too, but my old Farmalls would fry on corn squeezings. I'd have more money in rebuilding scored blocks and new rings than what its worth.
I know how. Was going to set up a business at one time. Making it isn't hard, keeping it from gelling in the cold is as it gells at a warmer point than petro diesel is tough. There's always been a good market for fats and oils. However in the situation outlined in this thread, the circumstances wouldn't be normal so operating a process not feasible in normal times would possibly be viable in extraordinary circumstances.
Besides, it costs nothing to have knowledge of how to do something.
We ran our old Super M on alcohol for a while. Worked ok, but alcohol doesn't have the BTUs of gasoline so it isn't as efficient so you use more gallons for the same job.
I know how. Was going to set up a business at one time. Making it isn't hard, keeping it from gelling in the cold is as it gells at a warmer point than petro diesel is tough. There's always been a good market for fats and oils. However in the situation outlined in this thread, the circumstances wouldn't be normal so operating a process not feasible in normal times would possibly be viable in extraordinary circumstances.
Besides, it costs nothing to have knowledge of how to do something.
We ran our old Super M on alcohol for a while. Worked ok, but alcohol doesn't have the BTUs of gasoline so it isn't as efficient so you use more gallons for the same job.
The Super M I ran had a starter for old alcohol, but you hit the switch for petrol after she warmed up. It was a small tank next to to the larger one.
Yeah I know how to do the fats to diesel but it is prohibitively expensive process, certainly more so in rural areas.
Continuing RetireinPA's thought - Most people know little to nothing about production or farming. If it isn't on the supermarket shelf, most people are lost. The long term problem is how to restart a country without knowledge of technology/manufacturing.
egg-xactly. my little portion of the disaster universe is governed by FISMA from 2002. pre- 911 not many entities were taking 'business resumption' activities seriously, even after the Y2K scare (I was with VISA then and the fed ordered us to fine tooth comb the system because of 2 digit imbedded dates in programs, databases and computer BIOS' - since visa does settlement and clearing for the US banking system, they said a 2-3 day outage would cause a worldwide depression and we would live in mud huts and eat dog etc etc)
The the newly created DHS tasked 'critical' businesses with developing resumption plans.
It should not be political, but alas - it is. since creation, during GOP admins, it gets looked at hard, during DEM admins....not so much. <-- insert whatever implied joke you need to explain it.
and it comes down to: people today do not understand or consider the production of ANYTHING. electricity just comes out of walls. water just comes out of pipes. poop just goes down others. Trash gets stolen every tuesday morning by guys in big trucks etc. dinner materials are at walmart....
In a previous post I gave the 2 general locations of 2 possible 'must haves' - a plant in PA that makes TP and a plant that makes canned veggies. has anyone ever heard of anyone planning to that gross level of detail? likely not. Each of those plants, inside, would have to have a business resumption guide or manual to be compliant. IF you, or a group or agency plans, then the biggest issue just remains marauding bands of d*** heads with ARs in pickup trucks driving around to rape your women and steal your food. that part is taken care of in our military/guard civil disaster siop.
ok lets run with that..what happened on or about march 2020?
other than a few people staying home for a short time (regardless of those who made it permanent) did anything change? OTHER than the hoarders? what made the 'preppers' go off the rails and clean us out of TP, bleach, pasta and canned beans? there was no shortage of resource until they made one. the end result was a lot of someones who profess to know better, put us in a hole we aint climbed out of yet. for no reason.
........
Is it possible that these were not "preppers" but rather "privateers", people who buy up things in a perceived shortage to sell to a starved market for profit?
Which, brings us to another group to look out for, those who would do so with supplies because they believe they make a buck out of it that they can use, like the guy in Catch-22 who makes off with one's parachute.
Glad I know how to make diesel from animal fats and oilseed.
But my tractor runs on gas, so it's a good thing I know how to make alcohol too.
Good skills to have, but if the SHTF, where are you going to get that much animal fat? It would take an awful lot of oil seed to run a tractor. I suspect that fats and oils are going to become desirable items with limited availability just like they were before Big Ag went into high production. If you butcher a hog, you will want that lard for your family to eat, not to make fuel for your vehicles.
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