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The newer versions are known as "life style centers" and as problems have arisen the latest robot security has been adopted to combat some of the nuisance issues.
Most of the attempts in urban areas (closed streets etc..) to create them in 60s-70s have fallen by the wayside depending on how dense the neighborhood may be with organic consumer demography for said pedestrian shops; or traffic related issues (Chicago's State Street attempt which ended in mid 80s - though there is talk of reestablishing it). Most of these areas tend toward high end areas with a boutique retail emphasis.
Obviously climate impacts the ability to do this and maintain a lot of traffic unless there is a high density of residents and visitors. Difficult to make one a destination unless it has some regional emphasis or high end emphasis (i.e. only locale in a region / metro.
Columbus did it with Easton Town center in early 2000s
Most of these New Urbanist style developments (suburban) are still auto-centric and heavily programmed outdoor malls with green space for seasonal events.
I'm not sure I know exactly what a pedestrian mall is but I know I'd have to drive to it.
Me too. That's the fundamental problem with pedestrian malls. Without adequate parking, they are limited to the relatively small number of people who live within walking distance.
I think pedestrian malls work best for streets heavy with entertainment, dining, bars, and other tourist options. The are far less successful when the main attractions are retailers because storefront retail has been clobbered by Amazon and UPS delivery, then the pandemic, and the ongoing failure of so many traditional malls, both open and enclosed.
So Times Square and Jackson Square (NOLA) are prime tourist spots that will endure the loss of car traffic, while shopping spaces, like State Street in Chicago (where car traffic was reinstated) or Market Street in San Francisco (closed to all but buses, bikes, and taxis IIRC) have had problems.
Me too. That's the fundamental problem with pedestrian malls. Without adequate parking, they are limited to the relatively small number of people who live within walking distance.
You forgot public transit.
A pedestrian mall, or any other mall, with public transit service to it will also draw some patrons who take the bus or train to it.
Three SEPTA bus routes serve the large indoor mall at King of Prussia, the mall with the largest amount of selling space in the country (and 3d largest overall after the American Dream Mall in the Meadowlands and the Mall of America outside Minneapolis-St. Paul). Two run from Center City and the third from 69th Street Terminal in Upper Darby. The first two provide half-hourly service to the mall between them; IDK how often the one from 69th Street runs, but it's at least hourly if not more often. Usually, when I've ridden them, they are full or close to it from the first stop outside Center City (Wissahickon Transit Center in Northwest Philadelphia) and the mall. However, I'd say that the bulk of the riders are heading to work rather than shop at the mall except during the Christmas shopping season.
Edited to add: That said, a mall with transit access but no auto access will suffer, as citylove101 and others have pointed out on this thread. The de-malling of many city streets that were turned into either pedestrian-only or pedestrian/transit malls proves that.
Philadelphia built a semi-pedestrian mall (it had two travel lanes restricted to buses) in 1979 and removed it about 20 years later. Chestnut Street came back to life after that.
I'll be darned. It's been so long since I've seen the part of Chestnut Street in Center City that I didn't even know that they had dismantled the Transitway (or whatever it was that they called the bus-only lanes).
I think pedestrian malls work best for streets heavy with entertainment, dining, bars, and other tourist options. The are far less successful when the main attractions are retailers because storefront retail has been clobbered by Amazon and UPS delivery, then the pandemic, and the ongoing failure of so many traditional malls, both open and enclosed.
So Times Square and Jackson Square (NOLA) are prime tourist spots that will endure the loss of car traffic, while shopping spaces, like State Street in Chicago (where car traffic was reinstated) or Market Street in San Francisco (closed to all but buses, bikes, and taxis IIRC) have had problems.
I totally agree. Although Times and Jackson Squares also has lots of retail, the tourists make them successful.
The apartments lining Jackson square claim to be the oldest continuously used apartments in the US. The ground floors on 2 sides are lined with retail but it helps that a lot of it is geared to tourists. It also helps that the other 2 sides are also entertainment geared. One has the popular Mississippi River Park and the other a historic Cathedral and Museums.
The restaurants are also major tourist draws with Cafe Du Monde and Muriel's being widely popular.
Times and Jackson Squares entertainment factors bring in the crowds that make the street closures work.
Cities think they can just close off streets and suddenly the area will be crawling with pedestrians.
Houston closed down a few blocks of it's Main Street in Downtown. I can't say that it has hurt business, but I can't say that it has been great for business either.Even the businesses that came after the street closures remain insular fortresses. I thought the Pandemic would have forced more interaction with the sidewalks, but the vagrat population may be too much of an obstacle.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
You forgot public transit.
A pedestrian mall, or any other mall, with public transit service to it will also draw some patrons who take the bus or train to it.
Three SEPTA bus routes serve the large indoor mall at King of Prussia, the mall with the largest amount of selling space in the country (and 3d largest overall after the American Dream Mall in the Meadowlands and the Mall of America outside Minneapolis-St. Paul). Two run from Center City and the third from 69th Street Terminal in Upper Darby. The first two provide half-hourly service to the mall between them; IDK how often the one from 69th Street runs, but it's at least hourly if not more often. Usually, when I've ridden them, they are full or close to it from the first stop outside Center City (Wissahickon Transit Center in Northwest Philadelphia) and the mall. However, I'd say that the bulk of the riders are heading to work rather than shop at the mall except during the Christmas shopping season.
Edited to add: That said, a mall with transit access but no auto access will suffer, as citylove101 and others have pointed out on this thread. The de-malling of many city streets that were turned into either pedestrian-only or pedestrian/transit malls proves that.
Our city of 65,000 has just one main arterial crossing a plateau at 400-600' elevation. We are considered car dependent with a walk score of 13/100. The only bus service goes across on that main arterial. Unless you live along it (very few) it requires as much as 3 miles with steep hills just to get to the bus stop. The nearest indoor malls are 16 and 19 miles, 20 minutes and 24 minutes away, the nearest "pedestrian mall" is 15 miles, 25 minutes drive. Because the "pedestrian mall" is about the same distance but has limited parking and no shelter from the rain, we never go there. It's also in an area where many new huge apartments have gone up, with expectations of walkability and few cars. It hasn't worked, the apartment dwellers still have 1-2 cars and limited parking so that whole area is a nightmare of congestion and parking challenges.
Providence tried a pedestrian mall downtown on Westminster St (shops on both sides of the street open and cars prohibited) but they re-opened the street after a couple of years when the shops starting failing. The street then began to revive but was still hurt by new suburban shopping malls which offered a lot of parking.
So, two types of shopping, one type has lasted 195 years, at least on the first floor. The upper floors of the Arcade also have micro residential condos.
Providence tried a pedestrian mall downtown on Westminster St (shops on both sides of the street open and cars prohibited) but they re-opened the street after a couple of years when the shops starting failing. The street then began to revive but was still hurt by new suburban shopping malls which offered a lot of parking.
So, two types of shopping, one type has lasted 195 years, at least on the first floor. The upper floors of the Arcade also have micro residential condos.
I believe Faneuil Hall in Boston, 1742, predates the one in Providence by about 80 years...
Quincy Market, next door, dates to 1826.
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