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Cape May, Newport RI, many Seaside Maine towns, Rockport MA come to mind
With the possible exception of Rockport and some of the Maine towns, most of those places now rely on tourism as an economic mainstay. I'm not sure that pedestrian malls in tourist destinations face the same issues those in larger cities do.
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Originally Posted by rabbit33
I believe Faneuil Hall in Boston, 1742, predates the one in Providence by about 80 years...
Quincy Market, next door, dates to 1826.
Faneuil Hall has some market stalls on its ground floor, but it was built as an assembly hall, not a shopping center.
And I think the reason Quincy Market doesn't count is: It was built as a food market, not a shopping arcade.
It seems like a slightly altered concept is becoming popular again, but geared more toward outdoor dining and entertainment, and not blocking automobile access to major thoroughfares. Cleveland's popular E. 4th Street comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_4...eet_(Cleveland)
Yes, Cleveland's East 4th Street has been a ped-only, outdoor street/mall since the early 2000s which seemingly cuts against the many urban failures. But there are factors other than the type of services that make E. 4th work, rather than the types of services offered on E. 4th (mainly restaurants, bars, a bowling alley, a comedy club, and other dance and/or concert, party venues. E. 4th's success is because of these:
- it's short: just 1 city block, as opposed to the several blocks (even a mile) of the big-city street mall failures.
- sure, there are ample surface, garage, and valet parking available (if you want to deal with driving, see below), E.4th is just a block or so away from Cleveland's downtown mass transit core -- the main underground Rapid Transit terminal plus the adjacent terminus of all city bus lines downtown, including the famed Healthline BRT which stops right near E.4th's Euclid Ave (Cleveland's main thoroughfare) entrance. So there's a lot of foot traffic, esp during major concerts and sporting events, anyway. During those crowded downtown days - happily, there have been more and more during recent years to the point it's commonplace -- driving around and parking near E.4th downtown is a major expense and a hassle. Driving in this section of downtown has gotten even worse since 2016 when the City closed the City's central Public Square to through traffic -- the Square is now more of a city park and, essentially, a large Euro-like roundabout.
- E.4th was never a major driving corridor but, mostly, a walking district, anyway. The street was always too narrow, to begin with; even more so with cars parked there.
NOTE: E. 4th has long, for a century or more prior to its conversion, charmed Clevelanders because of its narrow density of buildings, shops & stores. Before the single-entity purchase of the old worn-out buildings along the corridor - the street was home to a slew of honky-tonk businesses: wig shops, pawn shops, wig shops, nail & beauty salons, jewelers, bail-bondsmen, burlesque houses (back in the day), at least 1 diner and the side door entrances of a couple 5 & 10s, including Woolworth's, now converted to a highly successful House of Blues restaurant/concert venue. Despite the street dump appearance, Clevelanders loved its New York look - fire escapes were everywhere- a few still exist, I think.
Bottom line: E.4th was always a rare American (esp in the Midwest) human-scale district: essentially a pedestrian mall anyway, for its entire centuries-old existence -- Cleveland's original Grand Opera House was founded there in the late 1800s. Cars were an annoyance, so when the old buildings were spruced up and turned into for-market (often expensive) apartments-over-retail with through auto traffic banned, there was no shock to the conscience (and commerce) as it was in the ped-mall failures such as Philly's Chestnut Street or Chicago's State Street.
... and today, E.4th Street is such a hit with people, it is not only a major Cleveland tourist attraction (as well as a dining/entertainment magnet for locals who love the dense outdoor dining tables -- E.4th is a major see/be seen area), but its upstairs apartments are highly sought-after as well (I believe there's just south of 600 apt units on the street).
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Originally Posted by Boothwynman View Post
C-D'ers, do European pedestrian malls act as magnets for panhandlers and other bums?
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Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit
It's semantics. I'm pretty sure the posters here are referring to something like 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica which would be indistinguishable to a visitor from a European pedestrian precinct/zone whatever you want to call it. I know I always viewed it as that. It's an area in the city where there's no vehicle traffic on the street and it's lined by shops, restaurants, cinemas and the like.
Most of these in European big cities absolutely will feature beggars and bums. And why wouldn't they..it's prime territory for them and pickpockets.
I have walked the shopping streets extensively of several major European cities (Dusseldorf, Bonn, Dresden, and Leipzig, Germany, and Oslo, Norway) in the past few years and I have not seen a single panhandler, bum, or homeless person camped out. Whatever they are doing is working quite well.
If you want to go to a pedestrian mall, then go some place that still has them. In my area, some have died and others are more vibrant than ever. In some places, zoning regulations have made them impractical due to high requirements for automobile parking, but this isn't true everywhere. Don't go the far-out suburbs and expect them to be walkable!
I'm not sure I know exactly what a pedestrian mall is but I know I'd have to drive to it.
I'm not sure what you call those big outlet stores stuck together with only outdoor access out in the suburbs, but those seem like the worst of both worlds.
I still enjoy visiting an indoor mall at Christmas time; getting a hot chocolate and just sitting and people-watching. More comfortable than sitting outdoors.
I'm surprised any are still around. It was a 1970s idea to let Main St compete with malls. "Mall off" the street, provide a parking lot nearby, as you still had to drive to most of them, and customers would come. Except now they had to park further away so it wasn't as convenient. It seemed to have all the disadvantages of both a suburban mall and traditional Main Street.
We've got a walking mall in Helena, MT. It's an extension of Last Chance Gulch which has a lot of shops.
When the weather is nice and we have not much to do on a Saturday we'll go down and browse the stores. It's almost a park like setting when you get on the walking mall. There's a great tap room, a wine bar, restaurants, a very special candy store called Parrot Confectionery, a place that sells fresh made ice cream. It's very popular and much, much nicer than being in a stuffy indoor mall.
I'm surprised any are still around. It was a 1970s idea to let Main St compete with malls. "Mall off" the street, provide a parking lot nearby, as you still had to drive to most of them, and customers would come. Except now they had to park further away so it wasn't as convenient. It seemed to have all the disadvantages of both a suburban mall and traditional Main Street.
The funny thing is, most of the ones that survive are in smaller cities like Helena or Charlottesville, Va.
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