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This is such bs, I've explored your area in New Zealand on google maps and it does have winter dormancy(deciduous trees, browned grass and all), you're just straight up lying your butt off.
Your AVERAGE WINTER LOWS are barely above freezing, even a place like Wilmington, NC has higher average lows, and it's not THAT different in hardiness either.
Having average winter lows around freezing guarantees winter dormancy, even Orlando, FL has noticeable winter dormancy oh but chilly Motueka is not "cold adapted", who the heck are you trying to fool.
I never understood the ridiculous dormancy arguments some people make in threads like these, no surprise they're just straight up lying to make them.
In fact it even goes well beyond Orlando, the tropical Everglades have a fair amount of winter dormancy such as in this picture by Paul Marcellini you shared a while back:
And the area where this was taken has warmer winters than Motueka's summers. Let's see if anyone is going to keep up any dormancy-related narrative for the Everglades.
This is such bs, I've explored your area in New Zealand on google maps and it does have winter dormancy(deciduous trees, browned grass and all), you're just straight up lying your butt off.
Your AVERAGE WINTER LOWS are barely above freezing, even a place like Wilmington, NC has higher average lows, and it's not THAT different in hardiness either.
Having average winter lows around freezing guarantees winter dormancy, even Orlando, FL has noticeable winter dormancy oh but chilly Motueka is not "cold adapted", who the heck are you trying to fool.
... and?
We are talking about ecology and environment, and there is no dormancy in the environment here, just species that haven't evolved away from year round growth.
Browned grass in winter?, are you trying to be funny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't think of username
I never understood the ridiculous dormancy arguments some people make in threads like these, no surprise they're just straight up lying to make them.
In fact it even goes well beyond Orlando, the tropical Everglades have a fair amount of winter dormancy such as in this picture by Paul Marcellini you shared a while back:
And the area where this was taken has warmer winters than Motueka's summers. Let's see if anyone is going to keep up any dormancy-related narrative for the Everglades.
No, but then you don't seem to understand the concept of a sub tropical environment either. Keeping it simple for you, the less cold season adaptation, the more subtropical an environment.
Last edited by sandshark; 04-06-2024 at 01:22 PM..
I certainly think oceanic climates can grow lots of things, I don’t understand what is even the point of those posters. I don’t know why they think oceanic climates can’t grow corn, well for my own experience they do.
Which Oceanic climates grow lots of sweet corn?
Grab any info from Google on this, and you’ll get something along these lines:
Quote:
Relatively speaking corn has not been grown in the UK for very long, a little over 200 years in fact; and even then for a good portion of that time corn was not farmed seriously – certainly not compared to wheat or other arable crops. The reason for this is that maize is more easily grown in warmer climates, like that of the USA, Mexico and China; and our summers were rarely warm or consistent enough to grow maize as anything other than a forage crop.
Can they grow corn? Yes. Do they grow it well? No.
There’s a lot of this pedantic BS that Joe90/Sandshark engages in.
For similar reasons as maize, there’s a reason that cotton and sugarcane aren’t grown in New Zealand, and are grown in North Carolina. There’s also a reason that the palm species native to North Carolina are slow-growing in NZ.
Grab any info from Google on this, and you’ll get something along these lines:
Can they grow corn? Yes. Do they grow it well? No.
There’s a lot of this pedantic BS that Joe90/Sandshark engages in.
NZ grows about about 60,000 acres of it, with about half exported.
It grows easily, and it is certainly an easier grow here than oranges are in north carolina.
Sugar cane is an easy grow in my limited experience, except for rainfall. There would be little point in growing it here, when it is so cheap to buy from fiji, where summer rain is guaranteed.
Hard to say how quick sabal palms grow will in nz, as I have only seen two, including my own one that has never been watered.
Last edited by sandshark; 04-06-2024 at 01:42 PM..
We are talking about ecology and environment, and there is no dormancy in the environment here, just species that haven't evolved away from year round growth.
Browned grass in winter?, are you trying to be funny?
No, but then you don't seem to understand the concept of a sub tropical environment either. Keeping it simple for you, the less cold season adaptation, the more subtropical an environment.
No, that is not the mark of a more “subtropical environment” that is the mark of a more “tropical” environment. Subtropical describes a transitional climate to tropical. Within this zone, there is a gradient. New Zealanders are not as equipped to understand this gradient.
Dormancy is also not linked to “cold season adaptation”. Tropical deciduous trees exist, and deciduous species in SoFlo will still lose their leaves - this could be due to a difference in precipitation, or genetic adaptation towards deciduousness.
No, that is not the mark of a more “subtropical environment” that is the mark of a more “tropical” environment. Subtropical describes a transitional climate to tropical. Within this zone, there is a gradient. New Zealanders are not as equipped to understand this gradient.
Dormancy is also not linked to “cold season adaptation”. Tropical deciduous trees exist, and deciduous species in SoFlo will still lose their leaves - this could be due to a difference in precipitation, or genetic adaptation towards deciduousness.
Yes, I understand, as nz has spring deciduous species.
There is no clear definition of a subtropical environment. Holdridge doesn't work in that regard, because it confuses climate with actual ecology.
No, that is not the mark of a more “subtropical environment” that is the mark of a more “tropical” environment. Subtropical describes a transitional climate to tropical. Within this zone, there is a gradient. New Zealanders are not as equipped to understand this gradient.
Dormancy is also not linked to “cold season adaptation”. Tropical deciduous trees exist, and deciduous species in SoFlo will still lose their leaves - this could be due to a difference in precipitation, or genetic adaptation towards deciduousness.
Thank you! This is exactly the reason why the "the less cold season adaptation, the more subtropical an environment" is nonsense: although I have replaced subtropical in favor of the much more appropriate Cfa term, and do classification with weather mechanisms instead of environment, I can't not point out the nonsense here.
Less cold season adaptation dictating an environment is "more subtropical" means the environments of places like Atlanta, Charleston, Dallas, Tallahassee (aka all good quintessential Cfa examples, or subtropical in the context of the rabbit hole I'm going down to prove this point) are less so than TROPICAL South Florida.
I hope this makes the point clear to sandshark of why these kinds of arguments are ridiculous and unjustifiable in their use, if it does not then I'm done with this discussion.
I never understood the ridiculous dormancy arguments some people make in threads like these, no surprise they're just straight up lying to make them.
In fact it even goes well beyond Orlando, the tropical Everglades have a fair amount of winter dormancy such as in this picture by Paul Marcellini you shared a while back:
And the area where this was taken has warmer winters than Motueka's summers. Let's see if anyone is going to keep up any dormancy-related narrative for the Everglades.
Bro I live in St. Pete Beach around 1 degree average coldest month of being tropical climate, there is dormancy though not for long.
Thank you! This is exactly the reason why the "the less cold season adaptation, the more subtropical an environment" is nonsense: although I have replaced subtropical in favor of the much more appropriate Cfa term, and do classification with weather mechanisms instead of environment, I can't not point out the nonsense here.
Less cold season adaptation dictating an environment is "more subtropical" means the environments of places like Atlanta, Charleston, Dallas, Tallahassee (aka all good quintessential Cfa examples, or subtropical in the context of the rabbit hole I'm going down to prove this point) are less so than TROPICAL South Florida.
I hope this makes the point clear to sandshark of why these kinds of arguments are ridiculous and unjustifiable in their use, if it does not then I'm done with this discussion.
Atlanta has less cold season adaptation than south florida?
Atlanta has less cold season adaptation than south florida?
No, it has more, yet is clearly a much better example of a Cfa/erroneously-called subtropical climate than tropical South Florida. Which is, as I literally just said, why "the less cold season adaptation, the more subtropical an environment" is nonsense.
Done!
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