Which Place is More Subtropical North Island NZ or North Carolina?
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People arguing over which of these places is more sub-tropical is akin to two bald men arguing over who has the most hair!
:-D
Neither are sub-tropical
Why do people from NZ spend their whole lives trying to convince the world that they live in some kind of sub-tropical paradise! They have Summers akin to those in England! lol.
You might can get a classification to capture climate but it would have to be extremely granular, Koppen's system is definitely not granular enough, Trewartha's is an better approximation with flora but still has huge discrepancies between the moist and arid climates.
No point in trying to capturing climate, as that will always be inferior to stats.
Koppen does pretty well imo, and Trewartha does from a different angle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtropical-is-temperate3
Yeah that is true. Climate classification basically is a simple way of organizing climates, but within the climate types there are different climates. Köppen makes 31 climates for the whole world, that makes it easier because if we literally go by climate of places exclusively we would gave millions of climates, millions!!! That’s why I use climate classification but at the same time recognize that the climates are basically different. For example when they refer to Auckland I would say pre-tropical oceanic and for example Berlin pre-continental oceanic, and Tampa pre-tropical humid subtropical and NYC pre-continental humid subtropical. That’s my way of dividing them using climate classification but at the same time trying to relate to a deeper reality of real climate itself. This is a simple way but it works fine. -3-7.5°C average coldest month is pre-continental, 7.5-18°C average coldest month is pre-tropical. So Auckland is a warm oceanic and London a cool one.
Still doesn't describe the climate though. My climate is cool oceanic, but so is invercargill where I lived for six years. I don't regard the two places as having a similar climate.
People arguing over which of these places is more sub-tropical is akin to two bald men arguing over who has the most hair!
:-D
Neither are sub-tropical
Why do people from NZ spend their whole lives trying to convince the world that they live in some kind of sub-tropical paradise! They have Summers akin to those in England! lol.
North Carolina is mostly a sub-tropical climate. Including some textbook subtropical regions. Look at Charlotte's 2023 for example. Counting tropical days (18+ average temp)
People arguing over which of these places is more sub-tropical is akin to two bald men arguing over who has the most hair!
:-D
Neither are sub-tropical
Why do people from NZ spend their whole lives trying to convince the world that they live in some kind of sub-tropical paradise! They have Summers akin to those in England! lol.
This is getting ridiculous.
North Carolina is subtropical under Trewartha, Köppen, and Holdridge.
North Carolina was settled for subtropical plantation agriculture.
North Carolina gets tropical storms.
North Carolina has native palm trees, alligators, lizards, venomous snakes, subtropical and tropical fish, bromeliad, broadleaf evergreen, subtropical pines, subtropical soil…it has coastal maritime jungle:
North Carolina is more subtropical, by far.
New Zealand isn’t the best environment for most “USDA zone 10” plants to grow in - if it were, we’d have a variety of native tropicals there, like Neotropical Florida, and that is not the case. It is solidly warm temperate moist forest, and only a tiny sliver of the North Island meets the subtropical definition of one system, Trewartha.
North Island isn’t subtropical. By EVERY SINGLE DEFINITION, North Carolina is. It’s utterly insane that people are out here claiming that North Carolina “can’t grow subtropical vegetation”. Ridiculous. It’s not even in an ambiguous crossover zone.
North Carolina is subtropical under Trewartha, Köppen, and Holdridge.
North Carolina was settled for subtropical plantation agriculture.
North Carolina gets tropical storms.
North Carolina has native palm trees, alligators, lizards, venomous snakes, subtropical and tropical fish, bromeliad, broadleaf evergreen, subtropical pines, subtropical soil…it has coastal maritime jungle:
North Carolina is more subtropical, by far.
New Zealand isn’t the best environment for most “USDA zone 10” plants to grow in - if it were, we’d have a variety of native tropicals there, like Neotropical Florida, and that is not the case. It is solidly warm temperate moist forest, and only a tiny sliver of the North Island meets the subtropical definition of one system, Trewartha.
North Island isn’t subtropical. By EVERY SINGLE DEFINITION, North Carolina is. It’s utterly insane that people are out here claiming that North Carolina “can’t grow subtropical vegetation”. Ridiculous. It’s not even in an ambiguous crossover zone.
This isn't correct - the majority of the north island, and a good percentage of south island coastal regions meet trewarthas criteria.
The north island has subtropical plantation horticulture, it gets tropical storms (moderated), it has a native palm, tropical and subtropical fish, reptiles, lizards, broadleaf evergreens, subtropical soils, subtropical conifers and coastal maritime jungle. No snakes and has never had them. No bromeliads, although I have a few growing around the place.
North carolina is obviously a much warmer climate, but it is still more evolved towards cold season ecological slowdown, than the north island is.
You photo looks like an everyday scene even where I am in the south island. It could even be a winter scene.
Last edited by sandshark; 04-05-2024 at 04:52 PM..
People arguing over which of these places is more sub-tropical is akin to two bald men arguing over who has the most hair!
:-D
Neither are sub-tropical
Why do people from NZ spend their whole lives trying to convince the world that they live in some kind of sub-tropical paradise! They have Summers akin to those in England! lol.
Stop with this, NZ I agree summers are like Enlgand, but North Carolina does have a subtropical climate. The coastal parts a middle zone subtropical and the southern coastal parts is even warm subtropical. Just imagine an average low of 25.6°C in warmest month and an average of 9°C coldest month, that is subtropical! The summer of 25.6°C infact is not even normal for Central Florida which averages 24°C or 25°C low in warmest month. North Carolina is subtropical, the only none subtropical parts are the oceanic/subtropical highland Cfb areas in highlands (well subtropical highland is basically like oceanic but subtropical highlands) and Mt. Mitchell the highest points which takes Dfb warm-summer humid continental, but outside of that is subtropical entirely. Well I agree that the state in general has leanings towards continental(except coast) but are definitely still subtropical. Going by your freeze blah, blah, not even Florida would be subtropical, and Southern Florida is tropical, about where frost ends(though rare events did record below freezing). Northern Florida subtropical in all the ways possible has some cities that have frost almost every day in winter, Crestview, FL has an average low of 4°C coldest month, frost happens easily. A place with an average low below freezing can be subtropical. Subtropical is not about frost no frost, but rather the patterns of the climate.
North Carolina is subtropical under Trewartha, Köppen, and Holdridge.
North Carolina was settled for subtropical plantation agriculture.
North Carolina gets tropical storms.
North Carolina has native palm trees, alligators, lizards, venomous snakes, subtropical and tropical fish, bromeliad, broadleaf evergreen, subtropical pines, subtropical soil…it has coastal maritime jungle:
North Carolina is more subtropical, by far.
New Zealand isn’t the best environment for most “USDA zone 10” plants to grow in - if it were, we’d have a variety of native tropicals there, like Neotropical Florida, and that is not the case. It is solidly warm temperate moist forest, and only a tiny sliver of the North Island meets the subtropical definition of one system, Trewartha.
North Island isn’t subtropical. By EVERY SINGLE DEFINITION, North Carolina is. It’s utterly insane that people are out here claiming that North Carolina “can’t grow subtropical vegetation”. Ridiculous. It’s not even in an ambiguous crossover zone.
North Carolina’s native vegetation is subtropical because it is. The coastal parts even grow the warm subtropical! Live oaks are native in the coastal area, but they can be planted all over the state except colder parts like Mt. Mitchell. Also, the state has 2 palms that are native Sabal palmetto in the very southern parts are still native and Dwarf palmetto more throughout the state. With 2 native palms it beats NZ only Nikau palm being its only native. North Carolina is undeniably subtropical. North Carolina has hot summers, like humid long tropical-like summers, and it is on the subtropical and warm temperate eco regions.
This isn't correct - the majority of the north island, and a good percentage of south island coastal regions meet trewarthas criteria.
The north island has subtropical plantation horticulture, it gets tropical storms (moderated), it has a native palm, tropical and subtropical fish, reptiles, lizards, broadleaf evergreens, subtropical soils, subtropical conifers and coastal maritime jungle. No snakes and has never had them. No bromeliads, although I have a few growing around the place.
North carolina is obviously a much warmer climate, but it is still more evolved towards cold season ecological slowdown, than the north island is.
You photo looks like an everyday scene even where I am in the south island. It could even be a winter scene.
Of course, that is because NC’s winters are colder than NZ though barely. Coastal parts in winter averages do resemble NZ, the inland is colder and gets more frost but still it has subtropical characteristics and it’s not that close to continental yet. But the hell hot summers of NC and the winters still in the relatively mild range, it is subtropical. Infact I can call the Southernmost locations tropical paradise, though actually being subtropical. Just think, NC has 2 native palms while NZ 2 even in that it beats it up.
Of course, that is because NC’s winters are colder than NZ though barely. Coastal parts in winter averages do resemble NZ, the inland is colder and gets more frost but still it has subtropical characteristics and it’s not that close to continental yet. But the hell hot summers of NC and the winters still in the relatively mild range, it is subtropical. Infact I can call the Southernmost locations tropical paradise, though actually being subtropical. Just think, NC has 2 native palms while NZ 2 even in that it beats it up.
There is no agreed upon definition of subtropical ecology, but both places are examples of subtropical ecology imo.
In simple terms, one place can grow more, while the other place can grow bigger and quicker. But bigger and quicker doesn't mean NZ can't grow sugarcane as some posters would foolishly claim., As an example ,my own south island plant reach 13-14 ft high with 5-6 ft long canes. about 30 canes, and it passed the taste test. So certain posters shouldn't get too carried away deciding cool climate means sugarcane can't grow ... this is why why i's important to understand that the vegetation reflects the climate, not the climate reflects the vegetation.
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