Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
North Island is very ocean moderated, so it has what I consider a subtropical highland climate, both North Island and most of North Carolina are just out of the geographic subtropics if we consider the edge to be 35 degrees N/S.
I think in the case of climates like North Carolinian ones, the use of the 40N demarcation of the horse latitudes is more appropriate. After all, both 35N and 40N are official demarcations, which suggests to me that there is wiggle room from place to place.
WHAT..........one 25F low will kill off most 9b+ vegetation, look what happened to Tampa in the 1980s, even freakin queen palms were killed in those freezes. You just mentioned coconut palms, what the heck do you think 25F full exposure would do to one?
I said ocean temps. The ocean temps in this area stays around 72 degrees in the winter. During cold snaps in the later winter, the temps may drop to around 68f but rarely if ever drop below that point. That is why there are a wider variety of mangroves native in Florida, while only one cold hardy species can grow in New Zealand.
I would imagine this has other impacts on the marine life, which types of fish aquatic mammals, and vegetation can grow on the water.
The shift to discussing florida is what happens when people confuse climate with classification. What grows in the north island, north carolina, or florida, has nothing to do with classification, and everything to do with climate.
Central FL is another beast from NC or anywhere in NZ or Europe. Where I am is technically subtropical but only just barely. Lows of 20+ happen every month of the year. 30+ temps happen in February. It can get cold snaps and freezes but they are far from the defining characteristic of this climate.
Central FL is barely subtropical it is almost tropical, I am 1 degree short in coldest month of being a tropical climate! NZ is a very mild oceanic that’s true, with hardiness zones resembling Central and Southern Florida but it lacks summer heat to be subtropical and overall too cool to be tropical like Southern Florida is. North Carolina on the other hand is a good representation of a humid subtropical climate with hardiness zones being way lower than NZ of course(NZ resembles Central and Southern Florida in that), but it has enough summer heat and it is not that closr of continental either. Btw it is the state most affected bu the Bermuda high, that certainly makes subtropical enough(Btw Bermuda at a surprising 32°N us probably the northernmost place that has a tropical climate!). Lets say, if Southern Florida is tropical climate, then Northern Florida is a warm example of subtropical, so Bermuda being tropical climate then NC is at least a good subtropical. Tropical climates in Atlantic coast of US start at 27°N and I suspect an Af microclimate at 28°N, so NC at 33.8-36.5°N is definitely subtropical. Well if you want to say it’s continental fine, Mt. Mitchell is the only true spot which is Dfb, most highlands are Cfb in the west, but most of the state including part of the highlands is Cfa.
North Carolina is definitely subtropical. Most of the state is in the subtropics 35°N or below(I rely more on 40° for northern hemisphere though), it is definitely inside the range of Cfa latitudes 25-40°N, the northernmost part of the state is only 8°N from the closest place with a tropical climate in east coast, and 4°N northern of the northernmost place with a tropical climate on earth which is Bermuda, it is the state most affected by Bermuda high, it is in the subtropical and warm temperate eco regions, native plants are from humid-subtropical, and coast grows palms well, the state has 2 native plams though very hardy, it can get tropical storms, cyclones, and affected by hurricanes, summers are relatively long, hot, humid, and Live oaks are grown all over the state(though the coastal locations actually do naturally). The southernmost city I found there is coastal and has an average low of 78°F(25.6°C) in warmest month! The coldest month averages 48°F(8.89°C) which above the middle of continental and tropical thresholds, that is pure subtropical, actually even a little too warm for pure. The inland Southern parts are the pure, and the central and northern coastal parts must be. Who ever says NC is not subtropical is actually crazy. NZ is not more subtropical, it’s oceanic, and the ability to grow such vegetation already comes from its mild conditions and being warmer winter side of its type.
The shift to discussing florida is what happens when people confuse climate with classification. What grows in the north island, north carolina, or florida, has nothing to do with classification, and everything to do with climate.
And not all places with a same climate type wether classification or not grows same things as the other always.
And not all places with a same climate type wether classification or not grows same things as the other always.
Most european oceanic climates are winter cold hardy with a tendency towards dormancy. The uk or netherlands etc don't actually have any tender native species. They are limited in what exotic tender species can grow, due to a longer period of cooler and cloudier conditions or a shorter period of warmer temperatures, when compared to oceanic climates found in nz or spain etc.
That's the difference between climate type(classification) and climate.
The shift to discussing florida is what happens when people confuse climate with classification. What grows in the north island, north carolina, or florida, has nothing to do with classification, and everything to do with climate.
You might can get a classification to capture climate but it would have to be extremely granular, Koppen's system is definitely not granular enough, Trewartha's is an better approximation with flora but still has huge discrepancies between the moist and arid climates.
Most european oceanic climates are winter cold hardy with a tendency towards dormancy. The uk or netherlands etc don't actually have any tender native species. They are limited in what exotic tender species can grow, due to a longer period of cooler and cloudier conditions or a shorter period of warmer temperatures, when compared to oceanic climates found in nz or spain etc.
That's the difference between climate type(classification) and climate.
Yeah that is true. Climate classification basically is a simple way of organizing climates, but within the climate types there are different climates. Köppen makes 31 climates for the whole world, that makes it easier because if we literally go by climate of places exclusively we would gave millions of climates, millions!!! That’s why I use climate classification but at the same time recognize that the climates are basically different. For example when they refer to Auckland I would say pre-tropical oceanic and for example Berlin pre-continental oceanic, and Tampa pre-tropical humid subtropical and NYC pre-continental humid subtropical. That’s my way of dividing them using climate classification but at the same time trying to relate to a deeper reality of real climate itself. This is a simple way but it works fine. -3-7.5°C average coldest month is pre-continental, 7.5-18°C average coldest month is pre-tropical. So Auckland is a warm oceanic and London a cool one.
You might can get a classification to capture climate but it would have to be extremely granular, Koppen's system is definitely not granular enough, Trewartha's is an better approximation with flora but still has huge discrepancies between the moist and arid climates.
One reason why I like classifications like Koppen for its usefulness in dividing up climates by weather mechanisms instead, so much more clear cut.
WHAT..........one 25F low will kill off most 9b+ vegetation, look what happened to Tampa in the 1980s, even freakin queen palms were killed in those freezes. You just mentioned coconut palms, what the heck do you think 25F full exposure would do to one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't think of username
One reason why I like classifications like Koppen for its usefulness in dividing up climates by weather mechanisms instead, so much more clear cut.
I also agree.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
one 25F low will kill off most 9b+ vegetation, look what happened to Tampa in the 1980s, even freakin queen palms were killed in those freezes. You just mentioned coconut palms, what the heck do you think 25F full exposure would do to one?
