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Consumer Reports first tested a Volt in 2011. I do not know if they tested later models.
As far as the debate over 2WD vs AWD and Sedans vs SUVs, that ship has sailed. SUVs outsold sedans for the first time in 2015, and AWD/4WD became the majority for the first time in 2019. The Toyota Prius first offered AWD in 2019, too.
AWD is a total waste in most of the country. Added cost and complexity with zero benefit.
AWD is a total waste in most of the country. Added cost and complexity with zero benefit.
After I made my post, I remembered the proper search term for the statistic on AWD. It was actually April 2020 when AWD became the majority purchase, not 2019. As for me, now that I have an AWD SUV, I'll never go back to a sedan or 2WD.
Let's look at it this way. In 2012, there were several Tesla S models, one for $57k, one for $67k, one for $77k and one for $92k. So, if battery prices have come down so much since 2012, why isn't there a 2020 Tesla S model for under $76k?
Yes, you can say all you want about how performance and range has improved, but the fact of the matter remains that most of the savings will not be passed down in lower prices. Heck, Tesla still isn't making money on their cars (I don't consider selling carbon credits as operating profit).
This is why the Tesla 3 will never be under $36k (the special order base model , $39k for the regular model) and you will never see a $5000 price cut on a Tesla 3. It's only a matter of time before the base model will be dropped...the Tesla 3 for all intents and purposes is a $40k car.
Another way of doing a comparison for the Model S is to look at the cheaper of the 2020 trim levels which is at ~$76K. That vehicle's performance in regards to speed, range, and fast charging rate are all much better than anything in 2012, but what about pricing?
If we look at inflation, $57K at 2012 dollars is $64K today, placing the previous base trim then at about $12K cheaper than the base trim today. $67K at 2012 dollars is a little north of $75K now. That's about the price of the cheaper of two 2020 trim levels. $77k at 2012 dollars is about $86K in today's dollars making today's vehicle about $10K cheaper. $92K at 2012 dollars is about $103K in today's dollars making today's vehicle about $27K cheaper. In any of these, the lower trim level today has substantially greater performance in speed, range, and fast charging rate along with the other random stuff thrown in like AWD and air suspension. It seems like it's an obvious improvement in terms of bang for the bunk, and the only trim that was offered at launch that was indisputably cheaper was the 40kWh model which had far lesser specs such as no supercharging capability and a little over a third of the range of today's base model.
I think one interesting vehicle to watch is the Chevy Spark which I believe is the cheapest new vehicle available today at a little over $14K for base trim which is about half the price of the cheapest new EV today. It's due for a new generation in the next couple of years, and at one point had an EV edition. I wouldn't bet on the new generation being exclusively EV since doing so at that point might make keeping cheapest new vehicle trophy difficult, but 2030 is enough time for a subsequent new generation that could potentially fill that role. It'd be a single motor vehicle with a small-ish battery pack using the next generation of the EV platform GM is developing now--that is if GM doesn't end up pulling the plug on it completely. There are a lot of puns that can be made with that name.
For the significance of battery pack costs going down which likely isn't the only EV component cost that will go down, there's a paper trying to do a broad breakdown of vehicle costs for ICE and EV using 2017 data: https://steps.ucdavis.edu/wp-content...date-2017-.pdf Figure 1 on the 4th page is a nice graphic.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-24-2020 at 09:10 AM..
No...the 'entire' world will NOT be 'entirely ZEV' by 2030 because the entire-world will very likely have devolved into total anarchy and CIVIL-WAR as direct-result of militant-environmentalist's (ie: N.W.O.) attempts to take internal-combustion engined vehicles away from untold-numbers of people who simply CANNOT AFFORD to just walk-away from and 'abandon' their otherwise perfectly-running, trustworthy vehicles, WALTZ into a bank and "bing-bang-boom" instantaneously get a loan for something all of you doe-eye'd, limp-wristed, milquetoast greenies consider to be more 'wholesome, progressive' & 'politically-correct'.
My 92' half-ton chevy runs just fine, it does'nt pollute, it gets me where I need to go, it's MINE, and it's ALL I CAN AFFORD to drive. Take that freedom away from me, and there WILL be consequences.
...and you can bet your whiney, entitled a** that I am NOT the only one who feels this way.
Oh, Gee...I forgot to admit that as long as I continue to drive with a LIGHT foot, she returns @18mpg at 55mph...not too terribly bad, considering her age...
...but you 'fast-paced/busy-lifestyle' nit-wits insist on making make it harder on yourselves (AND the environment) because YOU'RE the one's polluting the environment, BLASTING-along at 90+ in an 65/80 zone, pre-maturely wearing-out YOUR vehicles, which also has the effect of further-polluting the environment, with non-sustainable, NON-biodegradeable, plastic JUNK.
Seriously, go take your snowflake concerns to Elon Musk, maybe he can build your 'utopian-society' on the planet Mars...because it won't be happenin' here on Earth any time soon...
...certainly at least not until Christ himself returns, to help us build a NEW Heaven & Earth...
AS IS PROPHESIZED !
Until then, we do the best we can with our GOD-GIVEN (abundant) fossil-fuels.
You do YOU, I do ME...never the twain shall meet.
...'make' ME buy an electric-vehicle...who the HELL do you people think you are ? ? ?
Last edited by Ltdumbear; 07-24-2020 at 12:10 PM..
No...the 'entire' world will NOT be 'entirely ZEV' by 2030 because the entire-world will very likely devolve into CIVIL-WAR as direct-result of militant N.W.O. attempts to take internal-combustion engined vehicles away from the masses of people who CANNOT AFFORD to simply walk-away from and 'abandon' their otherwise trustworthy vehicles, waltz into a bank and get a loan for something all of you doe-eye'd, limp-wristed, milquetoast greenies consider to be more 'progressive' & 'politically-correct'.
My 92' half-ton chevy runs, it gets me where I need to go, it's MINE, and it's ALL I CAN AFFORD to drive.
Take that freedom away from me, and there WILL be consequences.
...and you can bet your a** that I am NOT the only one who feels this way.
Build your 'utopian-society' on the planet Mars...because it ain't happenin' here on Earth till Christ returns.
Until then, we do the best we can with our GOD-GIVEN (abundant) fossil-fuels.
You do YOU, I do ME...never the twain shall meet.
That wasn't really the premise though. I said new vehicle sales in the US in 2030 and how EVs could become affordable as new vehicles a decade from now.
- Not entirely ZEV, but almost entirely like 95% or so
- The US, not the world.
- New vehicles in 2030–a '92 half-ton Chevy is not a new vehicle today nor will it be in 2030
I feel like even the topic title makes that clear, but I guess I was wrong. Let me state that again--I mean new vehicles as ones that are new in 2030. I mean 2030 as in about 10 years from now. I mean the US as in the United States of America.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-24-2020 at 11:56 AM..
No...the 'entire' world will NOT be 'entirely ZEV' by 2030 because the entire-world will very likely have devolved into total anarchy and CIVIL-WAR as direct-result of militant-environmentalist's (ie: N.W.O.) attempts to take internal-combustion engined vehicles away from untold-numbers of people who simply CANNOT AFFORD to just walk-away from and 'abandon' their otherwise perfectly-running, trustworthy vehicles, WALTZ into a bank and "bing-bang-boom" instantaneously get a loan for something all of you doe-eye'd, limp-wristed, milquetoast greenies consider to be more 'wholesome, progressive' & 'politically-correct'.
My 92' half-ton chevy runs just fine, it does'nt pollute, it gets me where I need to go, it's MINE, and it's ALL I CAN AFFORD to drive. Take that freedom away from me, and there WILL be consequences.
...and you can bet your whiney, entitled a** that I am NOT the only one who feels this way.
Oh, Gee...I forgot to admit that as long as I continue to drive with a LIGHT foot, she returns @18mpg at 55mph...not too terribly bad, considering her age...
...but you 'fast-paced/busy-lifestyle' nit-wits insist on making make it harder on yourselves (AND the environment) because YOU'RE the one's polluting the environment, BLASTING-along at 90+ in an 65/80 zone, pre-maturely wearing-out YOUR vehicles, which also has the effect of further-polluting the environment, with non-sustainable, NON-biodegradeable, plastic JUNK.
Seriously, go take your snowflake concerns to Elon Musk, maybe he can build your 'utopian-society' on the planet Mars...because it won't be happenin' here on Earth any time soon...
...certainly at least not until Christ himself returns, to help us build a NEW Heaven & Earth...
AS IS PROPHESIZED !
Until then, we do the best we can with our GOD-GIVEN (abundant) fossil-fuels.
You do YOU, I do ME...never the twain shall meet.
...'make' ME buy an electric-vehicle...who the HELL do you people think you are ? ? ?
No...the 'entire' world will NOT be 'entirely ZEV' by 2030 because the entire-world will very likely have devolved into total anarchy and CIVIL-WAR as direct-result of militant-environmentalist's (ie: N.W.O.) attempts to take internal-combustion engined vehicles away from untold-numbers of people who simply CANNOT AFFORD to just walk-away from and 'abandon' their otherwise perfectly-running, trustworthy vehicles, WALTZ into a bank and "bing-bang-boom" instantaneously get a loan for something all of you doe-eye'd, limp-wristed, milquetoast greenies consider to be more 'wholesome, progressive' & 'politically-correct'.
My 92' half-ton chevy runs just fine, it does'nt pollute, it gets me where I need to go, it's MINE, and it's ALL I CAN AFFORD to drive. Take that freedom away from me, and there WILL be consequences.
...and you can bet your whiney, entitled a** that I am NOT the only one who feels this way.
Oh, Gee...I forgot to admit that as long as I continue to drive with a LIGHT foot, she returns @18mpg at 55mph...not too terribly bad, considering her age...
...but you 'fast-paced/busy-lifestyle' nit-wits insist on making make it harder on yourselves (AND the environment) because YOU'RE the one's polluting the environment, BLASTING-along at 90+ in an 65/80 zone, pre-maturely wearing-out YOUR vehicles, which also has the effect of further-polluting the environment, with non-sustainable, NON-biodegradeable, plastic JUNK.
Seriously, go take your snowflake concerns to Elon Musk, maybe he can build your 'utopian-society' on the planet Mars...because it won't be happenin' here on Earth any time soon...
...certainly at least not until Christ himself returns, to help us build a NEW Heaven & Earth...
AS IS PROPHESIZED !
Until then, we do the best we can with our GOD-GIVEN (abundant) fossil-fuels.
You do YOU, I do ME...never the twain shall meet.
...'make' ME buy an electric-vehicle...who the HELL do you people think you are ? ? ?
So long as a vehicle isn't RWD, a FWD car will perform just as adequately in winter weather as an AWD. No tires have grip on ice. Winter tires technically grip packed snow and sipe slush. Studs work regardless of drive train.
Completely Wrong!!!
A FWD car does not perform as well as a AWD in ice and snow, especially in mountain areas, and areas with heavy snow. If they did, when the Chain Laws are in place, requiring anyone going past an inspection station EITHER have Chains, or AWD/4X4 with good winter tires which are made with a special soft rubber for a good grip to the road, or snow treads with studs. FWD cars with the best tires must install chains to pass.
Every winter, I carry a tow strap to pull those FWD cars back onto the road on more remote highways, way out of cell phone reach to call for help. Their winter studded tires did not help them stay on the road.
A FWD car does not perform as well as a AWD in ice and snow, especially in mountain areas, and areas with heavy snow. If they did, when the Chain Laws are in place, requiring anyone going past an inspection station EITHER have Chains, or AWD/4X4 with good winter tires which are made with a special soft rubber for a good grip to the road, or snow treads with studs. FWD cars with the best tires must install chains to pass.
Every winter, I carry a tow strap to pull those FWD cars back onto the road on more remote highways, way out of cell phone reach to call for help. Their winter studded tires did not help them stay on the road.
AWD is a total waste in most of the country. Added cost and complexity with zero benefit.
No amount of driving skill can replace the lack of tools required for the job. If that's the case, then people need to stay off the roads. Unfortunately since the bulk of us have some sort of schedule to which we need to adhere, that is not an option. We need to get somewhere, and at a certain time.
If AWD helps someone avoid an accident once during their ownership of the car, it's paid for itself. So that's a no-brainer. If it helps someone avoid having to call a tow truck even once, it may not pay itself off mathematically but it will not cost you your plans that day waiting for help, which could potentially be a long time in generally inclement weather. Could be on your way to a wedding, corporate meeting, or other function where it's not socially acceptable to be fashionably late by 2 hours.
I don't buy AWD for the 360 days of sun or non-freezing precipitation. I buy it for the 5 days where I NEED to get somewhere and canceling plans is not an option.
- The most drastic difference in performance of 2WD vs. AWD is in rain, not snow or ice. AWD nor 4WD will save you on ice.
- "Winter" tires are for SNOW that sits upon a paved surface
- Studs are for ICE.
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, $39k for the regular model) and you will never see a $5000 price cut on a Tesla 3. It's only a matter of time before the base model will be dropped...the Tesla 3 for all intents and purposes is a $40k car.